Sheffield Utd vs West Ham Utd Official Match Thread

[eskimo joe]

Whilst i hear what your saying it is hard to give Moyes any credit, well much anyway, when each game for eons has seemed like we are scrapping out results rather then achieving them , or even some of them , with even a modicum of ease. He plays with the breaks on.

This is a good example. Whichever way you look at it, he and the players have won a fair few games this season and by all means want better football but credit goes to Moyes and the players for winning the games which is what sport is all about surely. They achieved the results whether they scrapped for them or won them easily. Its no fluke that we have finished in the top 8 twice and are now 6th. The system works whether it is pretty enough for people or not. For that I give credit to him as I do for us winning so many games in Europe which has been a catalyst for players wanting to join us as well as us having something in the cabinet at last.

Yes we've played prettier football in the past but certainly not won as many games consistently as we have been doing under Moyes and it is arguably harder than ever to do so these days.

Who is talking about pretty football,?! We are talking varied football not the same old week in week out. You might look at the games we have won, others the games we have lost or the games we could have won, and there are a fair few of them. And if you can deny we havent had our share of fortune.well.... There are games his tactics are suited to and games not necessary. Unfortunately all his have the same approach when another could have reaped rewards.

Where did we finish last season?! 14 th and that was by the grace of the First half of it. That was the season we got found out. We are now sitting 6th, so lets see just how long he can keep it, we are hitting the same period but i think we will endure less games. 10 th will be the highest i predict, but even that is good. But how much better could it have been?!

You say people only blame Moyes when we lose, that isnt true, he gets heaped in with the rest but takes most of i, there have been occasios of him solely. As for the winning well the players, when they do, deserve it playing with restrictions. Moyes is very capable to play not to lose with any extras that come with it by chance. Not so good at playing to win and the possible minuses that it might incur.

[exhammer]

Well for a start Mooro wasn't part of a front trio. And Peters and Hurst never really did it for the hammers did they.? Before my time but my old man said that Peters was one of them players who the crowd would get on to because a lot of the stuff he did went un noticed. A bit like Soucek. For a second thing you can't call Paqueta a striker can you. He aint a front three player and neither is Kudus really. And for a third thing McAvennie and Cotte who were proper front players was both part of the best hammers team of all time and they was the two even more than Trev and Alan who made that team what it was. Whose the troublemaker your talking about btw?

Not you i believe.

Think it might be, Terry aint answered the question mate.

[h69]

This is a good example. Whichever way you look at it, he and the players have won a fair few games this season and by all means want better football but credit goes to Moyes and the players for winning the games which is what sport is all about surely. They achieved the results whether they scrapped for them or won them easily. Its no fluke that we have finished in the top 8 twice and are now 6th. The system works whether it is pretty enough for people or not. For that I give credit to him as I do for us winning so many games in Europe which has been a catalyst for players wanting to join us as well as us having something in the cabinet at last.

Yes we've played prettier football in the past but certainly not won as many games consistently as we have been doing under Moyes and it is arguably harder than ever to do so these days.

Who is talking about pretty football,?! We are talking varied football not the same old week in week out. You might look at the games we have won, others the games we have lost or the games we could have won, and there are a fair few of them. And if you can deny we havent had our share of fortune.well.... There are games his tactics are suited to and games not necessary. Unfortunately all his have the same approach when another could have reaped rewards.

Where did we finish last season?! 14 th and that was by the grace of the First half of it. That was the season we got found out. We are now sitting 6th, so lets see just how long he can keep it, we are hitting the same period but i think we will endure less games. 10 th will be the highest i predict, but even that is good. But how much better could it have been?!

You say people only blame Moyes when we lose, that isnt true, he gets heaped in with the rest but takes most of i, there have been occasios of him solely. As for the winning well the players, when they do, deserve it playing with restrictions. Moyes is very capable to play not to lose with any extras that come with it by chance. Not so good at playing to win and the possible minuses that it might incur.

You can say 'How good can we have been ?' for every season in the last 80 years. When we had Bobby Moore and Martin Peters we could and should have finished higher. Under John Lyall we lost many games we should have won and should have done far better with the players we had then but its all irrelevant because we didn't.

For me I judge the team based on how they actually do not what they might or could do as that is just pointless.

We have had one bad finish under Moyes but we won a trophy that season. We won't consistently finish in the top 6 or 7 with what we have on the field and what we can invest but so far, 3 out of 4 years we have been up there so that is pretty good.

I dont say people only blame Moyes when we lose. I said, some people put the blame solely on Moyes when we lose and the same people give no credit when we win. That is different and it doesn't take into account the fact that the players are as much to blame as the manager, they are not robots but humans and don't always play well but the way we play is our identity and whether you like it or not, that way does get us results when the players play well.

As for restrictions, that's a load of bollocks. The team are asked to play a certain way and sometimes they do it well and other times they are found wanting. They are meant to be professionals after all. You may not like the way we play but we do achieve more than perhaps we should sometimes.

I dont think Moyes gets things right all the time the same way that I don't think Alvarez, Paqueta or Bowen do but overall his win rate is the highest we have had in whatnis probablybthe most competitive era there had been and the constant whining about Moyes when we are sitting 6th is making our fanbase look entitled and embarrassing to those outside.

We all want a better team but there is a difference between that and wanting to destroy what is obviously a project built on gradual improvement that appears to be working to risk getting someone from abroad who plays a more expansive style and get torn to shreds every week like we did under Bilic in his second season and Pellegrini in his first.

[eskimo joe]

Who is talking about pretty football,?! We are talking varied football not the same old week in week out. You might look at the games we have won, others the games we have lost or the games we could have won, and there are a fair few of them. And if you can deny we havent had our share of fortune.well.... There are games his tactics are suited to and games not necessary. Unfortunately all his have the same approach when another could have reaped rewards.

Where did we finish last season?! 14 th and that was by the grace of the First half of it. That was the season we got found out. We are now sitting 6th, so lets see just how long he can keep it, we are hitting the same period but i think we will endure less games. 10 th will be the highest i predict, but even that is good. But how much better could it have been?!

You say people only blame Moyes when we lose, that isnt true, he gets heaped in with the rest but takes most of i, there have been occasios of him solely. As for the winning well the players, when they do, deserve it playing with restrictions. Moyes is very capable to play not to lose with any extras that come with it by chance. Not so good at playing to win and the possible minuses that it might incur.

You can say 'How good can we have been ?' for every season in the last 80 years. When we had Bobby Moore and Martin Peters we could and should have finished higher. Under John Lyall we lost many games we should have won and should have done far better with the players we had then but its all irrelevant because we didn't.

For me I judge the team based on how they actually do not what they might or could do as that is just pointless.

We have had one bad finish under Moyes but we won a trophy that season. We won't consistently finish in the top 6 or 7 with what we have on the field and what we can invest but so far, 3 out of 4 years we have been up there so that is pretty good.

I dont say people only blame Moyes when we lose. I said, some people put the blame solely on Moyes when we lose and the same people give no credit when we win. That is different and it doesn't take into account the fact that the players are as much to blame as the manager, they are not robots but humans and don't always play well but the way we play is our identity and whether you like it or not, that way does get us results when the players play well.

As for restrictions, that's a load of bollocks. The team are asked to play a certain way and sometimes they do it well and other times they are found wanting. They are meant to be professionals after all. You may not like the way we play but we do achieve more than perhaps we should sometimes.

I dont think Moyes gets things right all the time the same way that I don't think Alvarez, Paqueta or Bowen do but overall his win rate is the highest we have had in whatnis probablybthe most competitive era there had been and the constant whining about Moyes when we are sitting 6th is making our fanbase look entitled and embarrassing to those outside.

We all want a better team but there is a difference between that and wanting to destroy what is obviously a project built on gradual improvement that appears to be working to risk getting someone from abroad who pla ys a more expansive style and get torn to shreds every week like we did under Bilic in his second season and Pellegrini in his first.

Fair doos, you see things one way others have a different perspective. As for the project build, that made me laugh, it is a project Moyes has had in his port folio for nigh on 20 years and it will no doubt never change. He is a one trick pony. Moyes is Moyes's worse enemy.

You mentioned Bilic and Pellegrini having a more expansive style, the complete opposite to Moyes. You could also accuse them of being a one trick pony and you would be right. What wr need is someone at least between the two. Moyes isnt he and never will be.

You seem to think the people who complain, such as i are whiners, and expect either attractive football or instant success. I dont think there are as many in that catagory you seem to think there are. Maybe some of us can.see how much more we could achieve if we didnt have such a myopic manager, and how much more we could have in terms of league points. Either of us could be right or wrong, but not all of us are bludgeoned into acceptance by 1 trophy and a dubious league position. As i said, i half expect a tenth position finish, that would be fine if only boredom didnt accompany it. Who knows it might be lower or higher so it is a bit premature to base league positions on anything. So we are left with boredom , hope and Moyes.

Who said this? " When we win its the players but we we lose its solely his fault. For me that destroys any credibility."

[tassiehammer]

Not you i believe.

Think it might be, Terry aint answered the question mate.

No, not you ex. It's his old sparring partner and near neighbour

[Whiskyman]

You seem to think the people As i said, i half expect a tenth position finish, that would be fine if only boredom didnt accompany it. Who knows it might be lower or higher so it is a bit premature to base league positions on anything. So we are left with boredom , hope and Moyes.

Tenth place OK ??? No one can accuse you of lacking ambition Joe.

[eskimo joe]

You seem to think the people As i said, i half expect a tenth position finish, that would be fine if only boredom didnt accompany it. Who knows it might be lower or higher so it is a bit premature to base league positions on anything. So we are left with boredom , hope and Moyes.

Tenth place OK ??? No one can accuse you of lacking ambition Joe.

Lol, obviously would like higher, but i dont really think we are likely to finish in european spots and 10th is good but not so much at the expense of boredom. If we got that, finishing 10th or 17th would make little difference to anyone but the shareholders.

[h69]

You can say 'How good can we have been ?' for every season in the last 80 years. When we had Bobby Moore and Martin Peters we could and should have finished higher. Under John Lyall we lost many games we should have won and should have done far better with the players we had then but its all irrelevant because we didn't.

For me I judge the team based on how they actually do not what they might or could do as that is just pointless.

We have had one bad finish under Moyes but we won a trophy that season. We won't consistently finish in the top 6 or 7 with what we have on the field and what we can invest but so far, 3 out of 4 years we have been up there so that is pretty good.

I dont say people only blame Moyes when we lose. I said, some people put the blame solely on Moyes when we lose and the same people give no credit when we win. That is different and it doesn't take into account the fact that the players are as much to blame as the manager, they are not robots but humans and don't always play well but the way we play is our identity and whether you like it or not, that way does get us results when the players play well.

As for restrictions, that's a load of bollocks. The team are asked to play a certain way and sometimes they do it well and other times they are found wanting. They are meant to be professionals after all. You may not like the way we play but we do achieve more than perhaps we should sometimes.

I dont think Moyes gets things right all the time the same way that I don't think Alvarez, Paqueta or Bowen do but overall his win rate is the highest we have had in whatnis probablybthe most competitive era there had been and the constant whining about Moyes when we are sitting 6th is making our fanbase look entitled and embarrassing to those outside.

We all want a better team but there is a difference between that and wanting to destroy what is obviously a project built on gradual improvement that appears to be working to risk getting someone from abroad who pla ys a more expansive style and get torn to shreds every week like we did under Bilic in his second season and Pellegrini in his first.

Fair doos, you see things one way others have a different perspective. As for the project build, that made me laugh, it is a project Moyes has had in his port folio for nigh on 20 years and it will no doubt never change. He is a one trick pony. Moyes is Moyes's worse enemy.

You mentioned Bilic and Pellegrini having a more expansive style, the complete opposite to Moyes. You could also accuse them of being a one trick pony and you would be right. What wr need is someone at least between the two. Moyes isnt he and never will be.

You seem to think the people who complain, such as i are whiners, and expect either attractive football or instant success. I dont think there are as many in that catagory you seem to think there are. Maybe some of us can.see how much more we could achieve if we didnt have such a myopic manager, and how much more we could have in terms of league points. Either of us could be right or wrong, but not all of us are bludgeoned into acceptance by 1 trophy and a dubious league position. As i said, i half expect a tenth position finish, that would be fine if only boredom didnt accompany it. Who knows it might be lower or higher so it is a bit premature to base league positions on anything. So we are left with boredom , hope and Moyes.

Who said this? " When we win its the players but we we lose its solely his fault. For me that destroys any credibility."

I dont think Pellegrini is a one trick pony. I just dont think what he wanted to achieve works with the player he decided to buy whether he had one or three plans and he could not seem to motivate anyone which is a key aspect of managing players at a peak level. As for Bilic, he had form for having a plan that only lasts one year.

This whole 'how much we can achieve if we didn't have a myopic manager' stuff always makes me laugh. 'If me auntie had bollocks......' etc etc
You can say that if you want and I could argue that we are already achieving as much if not a little more than what we would expect with the investment and the players we have at our disposal. We may be achieving a lot less if we hired someone who is not so focused on a plan of action. You call it Myopic, I call it having a clear idea what he wants to do whether you like the plan or not is irrelevant really, a case in point is someone like Ten Hag who appears not to have one and is woefully underachieving, Poch who is at a club that cant decide what they want and even Newcastle who have a decent enough manager but are below us for a reason.

"Who said this? " When we win it's the players but we we lose it's solely his fault. For me that destroys any credibility."

No-one said the quote but many on here elsewhere practice it. Criticism is fine but constantly trying to find more and more reasons to fire a manager by blaming everything negative (whether it has even happened or not) is hardly supporting the club based on a definition of the word 'support'. The constant hounding of a manager who has managed a higher win ratio than anyone else we have managed to hire is ludicrous. We will always lose games but the negativity is appalling at times.

Find a replacement that will provide a better finish to a season and by all means upgrade but we saw De Zerbi and his team last night get thrashed by Luton......I can just imagine what this forum would be like if that had happened to us.

[eskimo joe]

Fair doos, you see things one way others have a different perspective. As for the project build, that made me laugh, it is a project Moyes has had in his port folio for nigh on 20 years and it will no doubt never change. He is a one trick pony. Moyes is Moyes's worse enemy.

You mentioned Bilic and Pellegrini having a more expansive style, the complete opposite to Moyes. You could also accuse them of being a one trick pony and you would be right. What wr need is someone at least between the two. Moyes isnt he and never will be.

You seem to think the people who complain, such as i are whiners, and expect either attractive football or instant success. I dont think there are as many in that catagory you seem to think there are. Maybe some of us can.see how much more we could achieve if we didnt have such a myopic manager, and how much more we could have in terms of league points. Either of us could be right or wrong, but not all of us are bludgeoned into acceptance by 1 trophy and a dubious league position. As i said, i half expect a tenth position finish, that would be fine if only boredom didnt accompany it. Who knows it might be lower or higher so it is a bit premature to base league positions on anything. So we are left with boredom , hope and Moyes.

Who said this? " When we win its the players but we we lose its solely his fault. For me that destroys any credibility."

I dont think Pellegrini is a one trick pony. I just dont think what he wanted to achieve works with the player he decided to buy whether he had one or three plans and he could not seem to motivate anyone which is a key aspect of managing players at a peak level. As for Bilic, he had form for having a plan that only lasts one year.

This whole 'how much we can achieve if we didn't have a myopic manager' stuff always makes me laugh. 'If me auntie had bollocks......' etc etc
You can say that if you want and I could argue that we are already achieving as much if not a little more than what we would expect with the investment and the players we have at our disposal. We may be achieving a lot less if we hired someone who is not so focused on a plan of action. You call it Myopic, I call it having a clear idea what he wants to do whether you like the plan or not is irrelevant really, a case in point is someone like Ten Hag who appears not to have one and is woefully underachieving, Poch who is at a club that cant decide what they want and even Newcastle who have a decent enough manager but are below us for a reason.

"Who said this? " When we win it's the players but we we lose it's solely his fault. For me that destroys any credibility."

No-one said the quote but many on here elsewhere practice it. Criticism is fine but constantly trying to find more and more reasons to fire a manager by blaming everything negative (whether it has even happened or not) is hardly supporting the club based on a definition of the word 'support'. The constant hounding of a manager who has managed a higher win ratio than anyone else we have managed to hire is ludicrous. We will always lose games but the negativity is appalling at times.

Find a replacement that will provide a better finish to a season and by all means upgrade but we saw De Zerbi and his team last night get thrashed by Luton......I can just imagine what this forum would be like if that had happened to us.

The qoote was a C&P from one of your recent posts.as later on you denied saying it.

I look also at the points he seems to needlessly throw away because he has only one approach., hence the imagine......people look at things from different view points, mine is we could do better....yours is we cohld do worse. Neither is wrong.

As for supporting the club. Imo that might be appropriate on match day but following all blindly is another story.