Coronavirus

[JayK]

Good debating with people like you Jay. I know we disagree fundamentally but, hey, life would be dull if we were all the same. Hence my reply and, like you, I promise no more long ones,



It does. And anyone who denies it, or for that matter, denies the existence of the virus itself is way off beam imo. But doesn't ANY disease sadly sometimes kill people, even though the disease itself is curable in many cases ? It is the old and the nearly old (my group) who need to be more aware though. And because of our age we are less affected by lockdowns and the like not least because we no longer have to go to work to provide for our families.



But are we not already "locking up" the old and vulnerable in precisely the same way we are locking up everybody else.? The old and vulnerable aren't exempt from the restrictions are they ? I do, of course, get your point about essential workers who are still carrying out their jobs and who are, therefore, more likely to be exposed to it. For what it's worth I would happily give up my place in the vaccination queue so that these essential workers could be given the priority which I think they deserve. And I'm not just talking about NHS workers here.



You may well be right. And also had we known earlier the old were the ones most susceptible to dying from it we would undoubtedly have handles the situation with care homes far better. They became death traps with affected, vulnerable inmates trapped inside with others who were transmitting the disease. But people blaming the government for that are doing so with the benefit of hindsight which is a brilliant decision making device.




Let's both agree on that course of action then.

I like and appreciate the effort you went into to reply to individual points there. Guessing you’re on a computer and not on a phone coz I’d find it painful to try that on my phone. Fair play . I will reply with individual paragraphs in answer to yours for that reason and I’m slightly lazy . And yes, a decent and calm debate never hurt anyone no matter what side of the fence you sit and we’re not robots. Would be boring if we were.

I don’t think you need to be more aware, I think in most cases the older and vulnerable group are naturally more aware. But it is different for many. My Dad (73) probably fitter and healthier than I am to be fair is very aware and does everything he can to stay safe and clean. He lives in a retirement home (not to be mistaken for a care home). Whenever he goes out he wears his mask, he also disinfects all communal door handles he’s touched when he comes back in. He’s very considerate of those around him and protects himself as much as he can. He’s just been diagnosed with a hernia which may need surgery. Honestly, he’s shitting himself at the thought of having to go into hospital and is trying everything to try ease the pain by changing his diet massively. That’s just one example of awareness albeit long winded (again ).
Another example is my mother in law who is terminal. She doesn’t like putting people out or others putting themselves at risk on her behalf so still sometimes goes to the shops. She also visits her bed bound mum (I think she’s 193 now). There are risks for her there too as 4x 2 carers go in there every day. They’re both playing a dangerous game but mentally for both of them it’s the right thing to do (maybe not the shopping bit which annoys me greatly as I can do it for them).
My point here is older and vulnerable are more aware, it’s the younger and middle aged and able bodied people who need to be “more” aware.

Yes we are locking them up, and so we should (not literally ). I meant we shouldn’t/can’t lock just those people up. Just locking them up doesn’t achieve as much. Like you say, they don’t go to work and don’t go out as often so are less likely to spread or catch it with that fact. The issue is others mixing with each other and therefore spreading it to those we’re talking about. Fair play with regards your views on the vaccine too. I too would give up my place in the queue but guess also should be higher up it due to those I come into contact with, if of course it stops me passing it on. You’re right though, lots of essential workers, teachers and shop floor supermarket workers should be high up on that list.

With regards the lockdown, my mates and I were screaming for a lockdown a good few weeks before we actually did the 1st time and saw the second one coming a mile off. So not hindsight, it was clear from abroad how hard hitting it was. And as you mentioned previously, care homes are at risk to flu too so how these experts and government never saw them as at risk I’ll never know

And clearly I’m struggling with short posts atm ffs. I shoulda just liked your post like I do many others

[Ironworksfc]

Good debating with people like you Jay. I know we disagree fundamentally but, hey, life would be dull if we were all the same. Hence my reply and, like you, I promise no more long ones,



It does. And anyone who denies it, or for that matter, denies the existence of the virus itself is way off beam imo. But doesn't ANY disease sadly sometimes kill people, even though the disease itself is curable in many cases ? It is the old and the nearly old (my group) who need to be more aware though. And because of our age we are less affected by lockdowns and the like not least because we no longer have to go to work to provide for our families.



But are we not already "locking up" the old and vulnerable in precisely the same way we are locking up everybody else.? The old and vulnerable aren't exempt from the restrictions are they ? I do, of course, get your point about essential workers who are still carrying out their jobs and who are, therefore, more likely to be exposed to it. For what it's worth I would happily give up my place in the vaccination queue so that these essential workers could be given the priority which I think they deserve. And I'm not just talking about NHS workers here.



You may well be right. And also had we known earlier the old were the ones most susceptible to dying from it we would undoubtedly have handles the situation with care homes far better. They became death traps with affected, vulnerable inmates trapped inside with others who were transmitting the disease. But people blaming the government for that are doing so with the benefit of hindsight which is a brilliant decision making device.




Let's both agree on that course of action then.

Whisky, the government had a months data from Italy that showed the virus attacked the elderly, they deliberately chose to remove elderly patients, positive with covid and put them into care homes.

It's not hindsight.

[BlackDiamond]

The good news after 10 months of the virus rampaging throughout every corner of the UK, 65 million have not caught it. Which is 94% population.

And with the vaccination program underway and the extra vigilance, those figures should remain the same, roughly speaking.

[Whiskyman]

Whisky, the government had a months data from Italy that showed the virus attacked the elderly, they deliberately chose to remove elderly patients, positive with covid and put them into care homes.

It's not hindsight.

Valid point. Although I suppose it's equally relevant to ask what else could have been done, apart from maybe better attention to hygiene and so on. After all people in care homes are usually there because they can't care for themselves and have no one else who is able to care for them.

[mkhammer]

TBH theres some very clever guys on here...who just aren't doing enough research into this....and I haven't a clue why...
it's almost like you're bolting a door to a hurricane and going don't worry it'll pass,everything will be the same when it's
gone.Kill a few that's alright 1-2 % maybe (it's actually 3%) of my town will die...can bear that ,long as MY sheds OK..
And most of them would have died from something else anyway...no real harm done.

You're not getting seeing the big picture...ignore the Politics...study the actual thing and what it's done,doing and potentially
will do...
Gets me is the guys on here that are poo pooing it ...are seeing the same stats and forecasts I am,how can you interpret them
so different,don't see how that is poss...

Only this percentage...only that percentage....sorry that's crazy talk...thats millions of lives.

Another 1,594 of us died yesterday related to this thing..450 approx would have died of Cancer....maybe twice that number
other Cardio or respiratory problems
Most deaths in a single year since 1918..80,000 higher than the Norm.
Theres a shitload of Stats can put up.


Are you not seeing what this is doing to people the agony and pain and loneliness they are dying in...slowly suffocating,
organs shutting down...it's not the fuckin Flu...

This is gonna be a long thread cos it aint stopping anytime soon.

[Ironworksfc]

TBH theres some very clever guys on here...who just aren't doing enough research into this....and I haven't a clue why...
it's almost like you're bolting a door to a hurricane and going don't worry it'll pass,everything will be the same when it's
gone.Kill a few that's alright 1-2 % maybe (it's actually 3%) of my town will die...can bear that ,long as MY sheds OK..
And most of them would have died from something else anyway...no real harm done.

You're not getting seeing the big picture...ignore the Politics...study the actual thing and what it's done,doing and potentially
will do...
Gets me is the guys on here that are poo pooing it ...are seeing the same stats and forecasts I am,how can you interpret them
so different,don't see how that is poss...

Only this percentage...only that percentage....sorry that's crazy talk...thats millions of lives.

Another 1,594 of us died yesterday related to this thing..450 approx would have died of Cancer....maybe twice that number
other Cardio or respiratory problems
Most deaths in a single year since 1918..80,000 higher than the Norm.
Theres a shitload of Stats can put up.


Are you not seeing what this is doing to people the agony and pain and loneliness they are dying in...slowly suffocating,
organs shutting down...it's not the fuckin Flu...

This is gonna be a long thread cos it aint stopping anytime soon.

What gets me is that seemingly intelligent people still believe wearing a mask actually stops the spread of virus and lockdowns are actually beneficial in "stopping" a live virus. I you think the wonder vaccine is going to fix this, I think you will be disappointed.

It definitely isn't stopping anytime soon.

[terrya1965]

The question for me is,are people dying more because the effect of what Covid is having on our society and not Covid itself?

People can`t visit the Doctor like they use to?It`s now a Telephone conversation. How can you get examined on a bloody phone?People are just not bothering now and I believe that many will be in an early grave because of it..

Mental illness,including Loneliness,not being able to see relatives and friends,especially if you are hospitalised or in a Care Home.My Dad is in one and he hasn`t seen any of his relatives for 3 months..Tbf,my Dad is a mentally strong man,but there are many that are not.. People cannot go out and relax or enjoy themselves.It`'s getting on for a year now.

Changing the subject a bit..What makes me laugh is the government has said,we are in the same lockdown has last Spring.

What b*llocks,you only have to go out on the roads and see..I would say,there is probably 10-15% less traffic than this time last January..In April,the roads were desolate.

[Whiskyman]

TBH theres some very clever guys on here...who just aren't doing enough research into this....and I haven't a clue why...
it's almost like you're bolting a door to a hurricane and going don't worry it'll pass,everything will be the same when it's
gone.Kill a few that's alright 1-2 % maybe (it's actually 3%) of my town will die...can bear that ,long as MY sheds OK..
And most of them would have died from something else anyway...no real harm done.

You're not getting seeing the big picture...ignore the Politics...study the actual thing and what it's done,doing and potentially
will do...
Gets me is the guys on here that are poo pooing it ...are seeing the same stats and forecasts I am,how can you interpret them
so different,don't see how that is poss...

Only this percentage...only that percentage....sorry that's crazy talk...thats millions of lives.

Another 1,594 of us died yesterday related to this thing..450 approx would have died of Cancer....maybe twice that number
other Cardio or respiratory problems
Most deaths in a single year since 1918..80,000 higher than the Norm.
Theres a shitload of Stats can put up.


Are you not seeing what this is doing to people the agony and pain and loneliness they are dying in...slowly suffocating,
organs shutting down...it's not the fuckin Flu...

This is gonna be a long thread cos it aint stopping anytime soon.

We can certainly agree people are dying in loneliness. And why is this ? Because relatives and friends are forbidden to visit someone dying in hospital because of the restrictions caused by the lockdown regulations. A family we know well recently lost a loved relative. He was 87 and had inoperable cancer, totally unrelated to any covid issue, although he was tested and was positive, possibly due to his being in hospital. He was permitted ONE visitor who had to be dressed in clothing more suited to a terrorist bio attack. The rest of the family were unable to pay the usual last respects and say their goodbyes. One can't begin to imagine how saddened the poor sod who was dying must have been that he couldn't give his great grandchildren one last hug and tell them he loved them.

It is fuck all to do with politics. But of course people criticise the government because it is the government making the decisions. It would be no different if Starmer was in power. In fact it would probably be a damn sight more draconian. Does that mean everyone criticising a Labour government would be a foaming mouthed fascist ? Of course not. No more than people criticising our present government are relics from the Marxist ideology many were spouting in the early70s.

[mkhammer]

TBH theres some very clever guys on here...who just aren't doing enough research into this....and I haven't a clue why...
it's almost like you're bolting a door to a hurricane and going don't worry it'll pass,everything will be the same when it's
gone.Kill a few that's alright 1-2 % maybe (it's actually 3%) of my town will die...can bear that ,long as MY sheds OK..
And most of them would have died from something else anyway...no real harm done.

You're not getting seeing the big picture...ignore the Politics...study the actual thing and what it's done,doing and potentially
will do...
Gets me is the guys on here that are poo pooing it ...are seeing the same stats and forecasts I am,how can you interpret them
so different,don't see how that is poss...

Only this percentage...only that percentage....sorry that's crazy talk...thats millions of lives.

Another 1,594 of us died yesterday related to this thing..450 approx would have died of Cancer....maybe twice that number
other Cardio or respiratory problems
Most deaths in a single year since 1918..80,000 higher than the Norm.
Theres a shitload of Stats can put up.


Are you not seeing what this is doing to people the agony and pain and loneliness they are dying in...slowly suffocating,
organs shutting down...it's not the fuckin Flu...

This is gonna be a long thread cos it aint stopping anytime soon.

What gets me is that seemingly intelligent people still believe wearing a mask actually stops the spread of virus and lockdowns are actually beneficial in "stopping" a live virus. I you think the wonder vaccine is going to fix this, I think you will be disappointed.

It definitely isn't stopping anytime soon.

You're prob right mate it won't stop it,it helps keeping in under control tho....like you would anything that can be passed
around...from a cold to the flu,you take precautions...thing is we know about all the other stuff,been around for a while..
And they do affect people at different levels,but you pretty much know what your in for...this thing we don't,if it was
just Flu like symptoms for everyone that gets it,could understand your take better...
But this is so variable,to not touching some to killing others in different ways ..it's the unknown of it, is the fucker to us.

Sorry didn't reply to your other post...(Like all of us busy as fuck at moment).yeah TBH did disagree with most of it mate...
But Opinions and all that we're all entitled ....

The China thing....No Idea what to make of it....how can the epicentre of it be completely clear of it now...tho believe
they are having some warning signs again...

But And a Big But............Does that prove the Masks and Extreme Lockdowns work......Fuckin Enigma China.

[mkhammer]

TBH theres some very clever guys on here...who just aren't doing enough research into this....and I haven't a clue why...
it's almost like you're bolting a door to a hurricane and going don't worry it'll pass,everything will be the same when it's
gone.Kill a few that's alright 1-2 % maybe (it's actually 3%) of my town will die...can bear that ,long as MY sheds OK..
And most of them would have died from something else anyway...no real harm done.

You're not getting seeing the big picture...ignore the Politics...study the actual thing and what it's done,doing and potentially
will do...
Gets me is the guys on here that are poo pooing it ...are seeing the same stats and forecasts I am,how can you interpret them
so different,don't see how that is poss...

Only this percentage...only that percentage....sorry that's crazy talk...thats millions of lives.

Another 1,594 of us died yesterday related to this thing..450 approx would have died of Cancer....maybe twice that number
other Cardio or respiratory problems
Most deaths in a single year since 1918..80,000 higher than the Norm.
Theres a shitload of Stats can put up.


Are you not seeing what this is doing to people the agony and pain and loneliness they are dying in...slowly suffocating,
organs shutting down...it's not the fuckin Flu...

This is gonna be a long thread cos it aint stopping anytime soon.

We can certainly agree people are dying in loneliness. And why is this ? Because relatives and friends are forbidden to visit someone dying in hospital because of the restrictions caused by the lockdown regulations. A family we know well recently lost a loved relative. He was 87 and had inoperable cancer, totally unrelated to any covid issue, although he was tested and was positive, possibly due to his being in hospital. He was permitted ONE visitor who had to be dressed in clothing more suited to a terrorist bio attack. The rest of the family were unable to pay the usual last respects and say their goodbyes. One can't begin to imagine how saddened the poor sod who was dying must have been that he couldn't give his great grandchildren one last hug and tell them he loved them.

It is fuck all to do with politics. But of course people criticise the government because it is the government making the decisions. It would be no different if Starmer was in power. In fact it would probably be a damn sight more draconian. Does that mean everyone criticising a Labour government would be a foaming mouthed fascist ? Of course not. No more than people criticising our present government are relics from the Marxist ideology many were spouting in the early70s.

I have tried to touch on...that maybe we could do things differently....using the Nightingales,focus on them as the centres
for treatment..let our Hospitals run as normal where poss...prioritizing Key workers for Vaccines....the elderly should be well
shielded by now..focus on those that have to work,,indeed being MADE to work....as some of us on here have.
Anything I say is not politically Biased...good stuff some not so good..but I understand the not so good shit.

It's wrong people with other ailments taking a back seat to this I agree.....It's a problem personally to me At Moment..
(not my health)...but maybe a Needs must thing....we can all call it different,but we do have to trust the "Experts" in this...
it's what they do,it's their field, we're just Laymen,having opinions......Believe your in the financial world,you wouldn't
want a Virologist telling you we're to put your money.

Thing is at the moment we're in a situation where we have to get rid of this thing,or at least get it right under control,
to allow the NHS and what it does to get back to normal.

I've known 2 Guys that have gone...and a friend who's dad has passed and cant give him the send off he wants...
And cos of situation I'm in (Nothing I cant handle) I'm lucky....hearing lots of Stories from NHS staff and carers ,that break
my heart......fuckin Sad Times indeed mate.