Maradona

[terrya1965]

The Champion's League is NOT a bigger prize than the World Cup.

Ask yourself?..If Man United(our biggest club in England)win the CL and England win the World Cup..How many fans would turn up to see the trophy return and what would have the biggest effect on our economy?There is NO competition.Go to any European country in the world with their top domestic team and their country.It will be exactly the same.

Ask any player,what he would rather win?I don't think it would be the CL.

To win the World Cup is the pinnacle of any players career.

Disagree. The World Cup used to be the pinnacle but now imo the Champions League has surpassed it because of the way players now move all round the world to play for the best club sides.

Pele for example was a great player but because in his day it wasn't commonplace for players to play outside their own country, never mind their own continent, he probably never gets as much credit as he would have done if he had been born 20 years later.

Imo the leading club sides in most major European footballing countries would beat the national team of the league they play in. That is really the reason I think the club prize is bigger. It's harder to win. I've no idea how many fans would turn up to a parade if Man United won the CL or if England won the World Cup but I do take your point. The economy ? Not sure England winning the world cup would encourage people to go out and spend more or persuade foreign companies to invest in the U K, but I suppose you never know. I wasn't old enough in 1966 to make any judgment as to how the country's economy benefited. It may have done but I just don't know. Although the economy would have had a boost simply by hosting the tournament of course.

And is so called "national pride" a factor anymore. I remember Italia 90 when, oddly enough talking about Maradona, the city of Naples was very split when Argentina, with Maradona of course, played Italy. There was massive support for Argentina amongst the locals if you remember. You may be right if you did a poll amongst players but I would bet a decent sum of money that if you polled only the TOP players it would be a different story to a poll of all of them. The journeyman is always going to say the World Cup is his dream, but a player who plays, or at least has a chance of playing, for an "elite" club would possibly have a different perspective on things.

If the Champions League is bigger and more popular,than the World Cup,why does it get nearly FOUR times has many worldwide viewers?

This theory about teams being brilliant in the CL.Liverpool in 2005 won it with an awful side and Chelsea's weren`t much better either in 2012?

[mkhammer]

Just think when you say Worlds best Footballer,it has to be that.. a Footballer...can't be the Worlds best Footballer if you
only have one part of the game..always prefered all round players,as being the best....Pele for instance could do stuff Maradona
didn't have the vision for...same goes for Cruyff,they were just as effective,but had even more about them..
Guy was a one off brilliant player can't argue that...
But I like players that can read and dictate a game,and be able to play pretty much anywhere..
Cruff/Pele,could play a decent centre back game if needed...could Maradona.
Bit like calling Bolt the worlds greatest Athlete..No, it's the guy that wins the Decathlon ,he's the best Athlete,Bolt is the
greatest sprinter.
Never really liked the term Worlds Best individual in team stuff anyway...Cricket maybe you could have it.

Ruud Gullit is right up there for me...could play international standard all over the pitch CF MF CB/Sweeper,wide, central,
would do a class job anywhere..


Nearly as good as our Mickey......

You have your opinion and I have mine.

There will always be comparisons between Maradona and Pele.I will be honest and say,I never saw enough of Pele and the thing that went against him was,he never played in the strongest Leagues in World Football(Europe).

You are babbling crap now MK..Would Cruyff be better in goal than Maradona or Pele?

Are you REALLY saying Gullit was has good as Maradona..Sorry ,that is laughable.Do you remember he played for Chelsea in the 1990`s?A lot of people were happy to see him playing on these shores,but can you imagine if Maradona had come?You really haven`t thought about this at all,have you?

You say it's all about opinions they say I'm babbling crap...and haven't thought it thru....
You also need to read the wording of my post and not surmise...and read what isn't there..

I'll try and explain it again....IMO if you call someone the Worlds best footballer they should be that,,,otherwise you
go worlds best defender,worlds best striker and so on...Maradona worlds best Striker,we can argue that,Worlds Best
all round Footballer NO.......I'm disagreeing with the way it's interpreted in general not just you.
Is Maradona even Agentinas best striker ..Batistuta..in my book....

Us at the Moment...Oggys our best defender..Micky is our best Striker...but our Best "Player " is Declan.........
So I'm gonna say Rice is our best footballer.

YES Cruyff would be better in goal than Maradona.... as he'd be a better CH,a better Fullback,a better sitter,a better
playmaker..and has a better goalscoring record...club and country....but think you missed the point I was making.

Gullit yes I know Gullits history watched him dominate games against us as a Sweeper a few times...
Never said he was a better player than Maradona.....said IMO he was/is up there and one of my favourite Players...
Very high up on a list of 20/30 or so...including Maradona..

Opinions mate...not Crap...

[terrya1965]

You have your opinion and I have mine.

There will always be comparisons between Maradona and Pele.I will be honest and say,I never saw enough of Pele and the thing that went against him was,he never played in the strongest Leagues in World Football(Europe).

You are babbling crap now MK..Would Cruyff be better in goal than Maradona or Pele?

Are you REALLY saying Gullit was has good as Maradona..Sorry ,that is laughable.Do you remember he played for Chelsea in the 1990`s?A lot of people were happy to see him playing on these shores,but can you imagine if Maradona had come?You really haven`t thought about this at all,have you?

You say it's all about opinions they say I'm babbling crap...and haven't thought it thru....
You also need to read the wording of my post and not surmise...and read what isn't there..

I'll try and explain it again....IMO if you call someone the Worlds best footballer they should be that,,,otherwise you
go worlds best defender,worlds best striker and so on...Maradona worlds best Striker,we can argue that,Worlds Best
all round Footballer NO.......I'm disagreeing with the way it's interpreted in general not just you.
Is Maradona even Agentinas best striker ..Batistuta..in my book....

Us at the Moment...Oggys our best defender..Micky is our best Striker...but our Best "Player " is Declan.........
So I'm gonna say Rice is our best footballer.

YES Cruyff would be better in goal than Maradona.... as he'd be a better CH,a better Fullback,a better sitter,a better
playmaker..and has a better goalscoring record...club and country....but think you missed the point I was making.

Gullit yes I know Gullits history watched him dominate games against us as a Sweeper a few times...
Never said he was a better player than Maradona.....said IMO he was/is up there and one of my favourite Players...
Very high up on a list of 20/30 or so...including Maradona..

Opinions mate...not Crap

Gerrard was the best all round player I have ever seen,if that`s where you are trying to go with this conversation. Even he would admit he couldn't lace Maradona's boots.

You dug an hole and you can`t get out of it MK.

I enjoy your posts MK,whether I agree or not with you mate,but bloody hell mate.

[deanox]

As I have previously quoted “we’re not here for a long time we’re hare got a good time”
He snorted coke off of strippers asses and tits, scored one of the best ever World Cup goals (the other one) lifted a World Cup played for Barca, Boca, Napoli and did I mention sniffed coke off of strippers tits and ass.
Great player, great life similar in ways to Georgie best super star walks like a woman and wears a bra.... km jealous of both except I am far better looking

[BCHammer]

Good player, but he has nothing on Mark Noble

[Whiskyman]

Disagree. The World Cup used to be the pinnacle but now imo the Champions League has surpassed it because of the way players now move all round the world to play for the best club sides.

Pele for example was a great player but because in his day it wasn't commonplace for players to play outside their own country, never mind their own continent, he probably never gets as much credit as he would have done if he had been born 20 years later.

Imo the leading club sides in most major European footballing countries would beat the national team of the league they play in. That is really the reason I think the club prize is bigger. It's harder to win. I've no idea how many fans would turn up to a parade if Man United won the CL or if England won the World Cup but I do take your point. The economy ? Not sure England winning the world cup would encourage people to go out and spend more or persuade foreign companies to invest in the U K, but I suppose you never know. I wasn't old enough in 1966 to make any judgment as to how the country's economy benefited. It may have done but I just don't know. Although the economy would have had a boost simply by hosting the tournament of course.

And is so called "national pride" a factor anymore. I remember Italia 90 when, oddly enough talking about Maradona, the city of Naples was very split when Argentina, with Maradona of course, played Italy. There was massive support for Argentina amongst the locals if you remember. You may be right if you did a poll amongst players but I would bet a decent sum of money that if you polled only the TOP players it would be a different story to a poll of all of them. The journeyman is always going to say the World Cup is his dream, but a player who plays, or at least has a chance of playing, for an "elite" club would possibly have a different perspective on things.

If the Champions League is bigger and more popular,than the World Cup,why does it get nearly FOUR times has many worldwide viewers?

This theory about teams being brilliant in the CL.Liverpool in 2005 won it with an awful side and Chelsea's weren`t much better either in 2012?

It could also be argued that the best teams don't always win the World Cup. I was only 8 when England won it but by popular consent they weren't the best team by a long way. I thought Holland were the best team in 1974 and as people have said on this thread Maradona won it on his own pretty much in 1986, so they, in your words, probably had an awful team but still won it. For Maradona read Gerrard and Drogba in the teams you mentioned.Not in the same league talent wise of course but I'm sure you get my drift.

I get your point about viewing figures. BUT. Nearly as many people watched the last Super Bowl as watched the last World cup final. Does that make it as big an event ?

[Newmarket]

If the Champions League is bigger and more popular,than the World Cup,why does it get nearly FOUR times has many worldwide viewers?

This theory about teams being brilliant in the CL.Liverpool in 2005 won it with an awful side and Chelsea's weren`t much better either in 2012?

It could also be argued that the best teams don't always win the World Cup. I was only 8 when England won it but by popular consent they weren't the best team by a long way. I thought Holland were the best team in 1974 and as people have said on this thread Maradona won it on his own pretty much in 1986, so they, in your words, probably had an awful team but still won it. For Maradona read Gerrard and Drogba in the teams you mentioned.Not in the same league talent wise of course but I'm sure you get my drift.

I get your point about viewing figures. BUT. Nearly as many people watched the last Super Bowl as watched the last World cup final. Does that make it as big an event ?

I am in no doubt that the Cl final would be up there viewing figures wise were it on free to view national television stations .
But the rest of the competition? Really ?

The CL is imo a fucking borefest from start to finish based mainly on 2 things.

Firstly West Ham ain’t in it .

Secondly , although I couldn’t even tell you which clubs are participating this season , I’m willing to bet that given a list of the aforementioned clubs in August , I could correctly predict the last 8 due to its boring boring boring predictably and ridiculous seeding system . I reckon your Barca tinted glasses are playing up


Anyway I digress , the greatest player will always be Pele and Tel , during Pele’s career were the “ major” European leagues REALLY that much “stronger” than the South American equivalents ?

That divide imo has only come about relatively recently due to , yep you know it , ££££$$$$€€€€ !

[BlackDiamond]

You say it's all about opinions they say I'm babbling crap...and haven't thought it thru....
You also need to read the wording of my post and not surmise...and read what isn't there..

I'll try and explain it again....IMO if you call someone the Worlds best footballer they should be that,,,otherwise you
go worlds best defender,worlds best striker and so on...Maradona worlds best Striker,we can argue that,Worlds Best
all round Footballer NO.......I'm disagreeing with the way it's interpreted in general not just you.
Is Maradona even Agentinas best striker ..Batistuta..in my book....

Us at the Moment...Oggys our best defender..Micky is our best Striker...but our Best "Player " is Declan.........
So I'm gonna say Rice is our best footballer.

YES Cruyff would be better in goal than Maradona.... as he'd be a better CH,a better Fullback,a better sitter,a better
playmaker..and has a better goalscoring record...club and country....but think you missed the point I was making.

Gullit yes I know Gullits history watched him dominate games against us as a Sweeper a few times...
Never said he was a better player than Maradona.....said IMO he was/is up there and one of my favourite Players...
Very high up on a list of 20/30 or so...including Maradona..

Opinions mate...not Crap

Gerrard was the best all round player I have ever seen, if that`s where you are trying to go with this conversation. Even he would admit he couldn't lace Maradona's boots.

You dug an hole and you can`t get out of it MK.

I enjoy your posts MK,whether I agree or not with you mate,but bloody hell mate.

Rewind to the 2015/16 season and West Ham finished 7th on 62 points. Most people credit the influence of the brilliant Dimitri Payet for that.
So one outstanding player can have a huge effect obviously.

Now imagine Diego Maradonna - the 86/87 version - instead of Dimitri Payet in the team. Would West Ham have finished higher than 7 th ?

Of course it depends whether you think Maradonna was a better player. And if he was, was he twice as good, or 10% better. I think we can agree West Ham would have probably equalled that 7th place or finished higher.

Then of course there is the notion that anybody brilliant would be just as influential. Obviously it's a big help but let's imagine the brilliant Johan Cruyff in the 2015/2016 team. Would he have shined so brightly working with Mark Noble, Cheikhou Kouyaté, Pedro Obiang.

I think Cruyff always needed another great player to be in the same team, step up Ruud Gullitt. However, I was imagining the influence of just one great player, otherwise we get completely detached from the point.

None of the above is food for thought but it is something to chew on

[Newmarket]

Gerrard was the best all round player I have ever seen, if that`s where you are trying to go with this conversation. Even he would admit he couldn't lace Maradona's boots.

You dug an hole and you can`t get out of it MK.

I enjoy your posts MK,whether I agree or not with you mate,but bloody hell mate.

Rewind to the 2015/16 season and West Ham finished 7th on 62 points. Most people credit the influence of the brilliant Dimitri Payet for that.
So one outstanding player can have a huge effect obviously.

Now imagine Diego Maradonna - the 86/87 version - instead of Dimitri Payet in the team. Would West Ham have finished higher than 7 th ?

Of course it depends whether you think Maradonna was a better player. And if he was, was he twice as good, or 10% better. I think we can agree West Ham would have probably equalled that 7th place or finished higher.

Then of course there is the notion that anybody brilliant would be just as influential. Obviously it's a big help but let's imagine the brilliant Johan Cruyff in the 2015/2016 team. Would he have shined so brightly working with Mark Noble, Cheikhou Kouyaté, Pedro Obiang.

I think Cruyff always needed another great player to be in the same team, step up Ruud Gullitt. However, I was imagining the influence of just one great player, otherwise we get completely detached from the point.

None of the above is food for thought but it is something to chew on

Are you suggesting that Ruud Gullitt played in the same Dutch team as Cruff ?

However I get your point .

Step up
Neeskens
Haan
Krol
Van der Kerkoff x 2
Rep
Rensenbrink.

A great great team undone in ‘74 imo by the individual brilliance of Beckenbaur and one Gerd Muller.

[BlackDiamond]

Rewind to the 2015/16 season and West Ham finished 7th on 62 points. Most people credit the influence of the brilliant Dimitri Payet for that.
So one outstanding player can have a huge effect obviously.

Now imagine Diego Maradonna - the 86/87 version - instead of Dimitri Payet in the team. Would West Ham have finished higher than 7 th ?

Of course it depends whether you think Maradonna was a better player. And if he was, was he twice as good, or 10% better. I think we can agree West Ham would have probably equalled that 7th place or finished higher.

Then of course there is the notion that anybody brilliant would be just as influential. Obviously it's a big help but let's imagine the brilliant Johan Cruyff in the 2015/2016 team. Would he have shined so brightly working with Mark Noble, Cheikhou Kouyaté, Pedro Obiang.

I think Cruyff always needed another great player to be in the same team, step up Ruud Gullitt. However, I was imagining the influence of just one great player, otherwise we get completely detached from the point.

None of the above is food for thought but it is something to chew on

Are you suggesting that Ruud Gullitt played in the same Dutch team as Cruff ?

However I get your point .

Step up
Neeskens
Haan
Krol
Van der Kerkoff x 2
Rep
Rensenbrink.

A great great team undone in ‘74 imo by the individual brilliance of Beckenbaur and one Gerd Muller.

I thought that might be interpreted that way, but included it anyway. I used Gullitt not because he was Dutch but because he had been referenced in the posts quoted. The Netherlands team of 74 were fantastic as were the team in 88.