Can't disagree with anything Nev's written there tbh. I suppose I'd call myself a traditional conservative voter but recently the only reason I've voted for the party is that they appear less fucking incompetent than the alternative. Hopefully Starmer will whip his lot into some sort of credible government in waiting because if democracy is to work properly we have to have sensible options. Obviously PR is one answer but vested interests will always kill that off here. And as we've seen from many of the posts here there are some people who will always vote Tory or Labour on principle, not because they are a viable government.Neville Bartos wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 1:46 amTraditionally bankrupts the country?mkhammer wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 10:34 am
Slight exaggeration mate....
But Mad...absolute not,couldn't be more clearer...I believe in the system a Tory Government will
Just the Basic concept..it'll alter over the years but the concept stays the same.
A more left approach...like said have not to much idea what that is now...but traditionally
it Bankrupts the country and the working man suffers, but the wealthy crack on....
But you are right Conservatism means a whole shit load of things ...and the party has changed
and evolved ...there's some who don't think so tho.
The closest we've come to bankruptcy was caused by that bastion of the left the banking industry.
The concept of conservatism took us into the EEC... and out of the EU.
I genuinely don't know how you can overlook the bare faced lying and utter lack of integrity in contemporary politics.
We all have our opinions on the likes of Thatcher, Kinnock, Major and Smith, but whether you agreed or disagreed with them they seemed to stick to their ideological guns.
Now the creed is one of opportunism and populism.
This is devolution not evolution.
I considered not voting at the last election. But eventually I cast my vote for Grant Shapps because I think he is an excellent constituency MP. On this occasion the fact I considered not voting for him I think speaks volumes for the contempt in which I hold the present shower of shit. Shapps is a top man, at least imo, but he is obliged , like the rest of the obsequious sycophants who occupy the benches (on both sides) to toe the party line, in the interests of "unity"
There are people on the Tory benches today who would be better described as Fascists. Equally there are people on the opposite side who seem to have overlooked the fact that communism was finally totally discredited when the fucking Berlin Wall was pulled down. If we had any integrity in politics the Tories and the Labour party would kick out those extremists. But of course they can't do that because each local constituency has it's own membership which elects it's candidate to stand for election. Get a few extremist crazies, left or right, on the committee and, hey, you're running the show.
Imo PR would help. I've no time for the BNP or, if we swing leftward, the Socialist Workers Party, if they're still around. But there are people who vote for them. However unpalatable their views may seem to most of us they are entitled to be represented. At the moment, even if we have an electoral landslide, there are still more people who vote against the sitting government than voted for it. How can that be seen as democratic ?
Finally, and I'm saying this as a conservative. One of the few politicians I had any respect for was Tony Benn. I disagreed with pretty much everything he said. But he believed in what he believed in and never once changed his views to court popularity. Compare that with our present buffoon of a Prime Minister or one of his not too distant predecessors Tony Blair.