The Budget

[Whiskyman]

But in ANY scenario involving macro economics there has to be a risk and reward analysis. The law of unintended consequences can be a bitch,. Close huge swathes of the economy, reduce peoples disposable income, destroy many small businesses, screw around with the education of the next generation of tax payers and, voila, you have a significantly reduced tax income to fund, among other things, the NHS, possibly for a great many years to come.

And at the risk of sounding totally heartless for what ? If we were that concerned about preservation of life for it's own sake would we not, as an example, be sending billions worth of aid to address the issue of malnutrition ? And just for the record I'm not suggesting we do that, simply using it as an example. No doubt there are many better ones as others will probably point out.

Our population, and no doubt the same applies in other countries, is getting older. There is now a greater percentage of "elderly" people than there have ever been before. Whether we liie it or not the death rate will, therefore, increase not least because as we get older we become less able to resist diseases.

I think it's quite amazing that in India 50% of a very large population is under 25. Go India,go.

One consequence of a year of lockdown disruption, is the accelerated change in working habits and the shift into new technologies.

Almost all companies are planning downsizing their infrastructure and using their workforce more imaginatively. Which will reward the very brightest who in a more transparent work environment will obviously be more visible.

The losers are the vast swathes of mediocre talent who sat comfortably embedded in successful organisations without contributing enough.

Steady on mate. Remove the mediocre, the downright useless, the jobsworths and the increasing numbers employed to make up artificial targets of race, disability or sexual orientation and our entire system of local government, not to mention the civil service, would disappear overnight.

[BlackDiamond]

I think it's quite amazing that in India 50% of a very large population is under 25. Go India,go.

One consequence of a year of lockdown disruption, is the accelerated change in working habits and the shift into new technologies.

Almost all companies are planning downsizing their infrastructure and using their workforce more imaginatively. Which will reward the very brightest who in a more transparent work environment will obviously be more visible.

The losers are the vast swathes of mediocre talent who sat comfortably embedded in successful organisations without contributing enough.

Steady on mate. Remove the mediocre, the downright useless, the jobsworths and the increasing numbers employed to make up artificial targets of race, disability or sexual orientation and our entire system of local government, not to mention the civil service, would disappear overnight.

I was actually thinking along parrarel lines...but I softened the spotlight because if we really turned it bright on all those hiding in the shadows...christ the carnage that follows wouldn't 't bear witnessing.

And of course once your out the game, a lot of these day-dreamers a'int getting back in

[JayK]

I see a merge in the horizon

[mkhammer]

I see a merge in the horizon

I know mate ..I did say.....

A brilliant Budget Rishi and the Tories put in place..and no ones talking about it......


That should do it.......

[mkhammer]

Exactly that...Covid is only doing what life does...takes the elderly and vulnerable mainly.....Difference with a Virus,
especially this one,it's the healthy and fit amongst us that are passing it on to the Elderly and Vulnerable,it's our
duty to protect them and stop it circulating by doing and following the steps we have.

But in ANY scenario involving macro economics there has to be a risk and reward analysis. The law of unintended consequences can be a bitch,. Close huge swathes of the economy, reduce peoples disposable income, destroy many small businesses, screw around with the education of the next generation of tax payers and, voila, you have a significantly reduced tax income to fund, among other things, the NHS, possibly for a great many years to come.

And at the risk of sounding totally heartless for what ? If we were that concerned about preservation of life for it's own sake would we not, as an example, be sending billions worth of aid to address the issue of malnutrition ? And just for the record I'm not suggesting we do that, simply using it as an example. No doubt there are many better ones as others will probably point out.

Our population, and no doubt the same applies in other countries, is getting older. There is now a greater percentage of "elderly" people than there have ever been before. Whether we liie it or not the death rate will, therefore, increase not least because as we get older we become less able to resist diseases.

Ok lets forget peoples lives........
And look at the Economics...First of all and you'll know this ,the Very last thing any Conservative Government would want
is higher unemployment...less tax revenue, more benefit pay outs...so we have the risk and reward thing you refer to,how do we
balance that, what is best ...For the Long term..Long Term...we proved we can take a short term hit,that I personally
didn't think was possible..Covering wages,deferring loans etc...that was doable,a fuckin struggle,people have been hurt,
no denying that..seen it.
But we will bounce back.....Money doesn't disappear,it's still there,sat in peoples bank accounts,there will be a spending
boom when we open up..happening already with Holiday bookings.(which TBH aint great,cos most of the money goes
overseas)but the shops will be mobbed,as will pubs,restaurants,car dealerships...you name it.
18 months the Economy will Ok pretty stable I'm guessing,worldwide as well.....not just us.
Everything The Tories have done goes against their Policies/Strategies ...Why would they do that..makes no sense...
Reason is....for the Longer Term..
If we hadn't "Shut up Shop"...let this thing do what it wants, to move among us...It's pretty much a given that everyone
would have caught it....Caught it, not been affected by it...So I not gonna even try and guess how bad things would have
been.....Despite what people think.... ... this thing does kill people,not just the old,do some stat checking,plenty
of 40/50 year olds have gone down with it.
Hospitals would have crashed and burned...and put the Closed signs up...turning people away,would the Nightingales
have handled it...we only have so many staff,can have a Million beds...no staff,it becomes pointless exercise.
Can you imagine sickness levels among our workforce...potentially would have gone thru the roof...you think the
Economies taken a hit now...20/30% sickness levels.....No Staff in Shops,Teacher shortages,trains not running...could
go on,plus the fact this thing isn't going anywhere,cos we never stopped it,it would just continue,we'd be Fucked.

WE done the right thing...

[Whiskyman]

But in ANY scenario involving macro economics there has to be a risk and reward analysis. The law of unintended consequences can be a bitch,. Close huge swathes of the economy, reduce peoples disposable income, destroy many small businesses, screw around with the education of the next generation of tax payers and, voila, you have a significantly reduced tax income to fund, among other things, the NHS, possibly for a great many years to come.

And at the risk of sounding totally heartless for what ? If we were that concerned about preservation of life for it's own sake would we not, as an example, be sending billions worth of aid to address the issue of malnutrition ? And just for the record I'm not suggesting we do that, simply using it as an example. No doubt there are many better ones as others will probably point out.

Our population, and no doubt the same applies in other countries, is getting older. There is now a greater percentage of "elderly" people than there have ever been before. Whether we liie it or not the death rate will, therefore, increase not least because as we get older we become less able to resist diseases.

Ok lets forget peoples lives........
And look at the Economics...First of all and you'll know this ,the Very last thing any Conservative Government would want
is higher unemployment...less tax revenue, more benefit pay outs...so we have the risk and reward thing you refer to,how do we
balance that, what is best ...For the Long term..Long Term...we proved we can take a short term hit,that I personally
didn't think was possible..Covering wages,deferring loans etc...that was doable,a fuckin struggle,people have been hurt,
no denying that..seen it.
But we will bounce back.....Money doesn't disappear,it's still there,sat in peoples bank accounts,there will be a spending
boom when we open up..happening already with Holiday bookings.(which TBH aint great,cos most of the money goes
overseas)but the shops will be mobbed,as will pubs,restaurants,car dealerships...you name it.
18 months the Economy will Ok pretty stable I'm guessing,worldwide as well.....not just us.
Everything The Tories have done goes against their Policies/Strategies ...Why would they do that..makes no sense...
Reason is....for the Longer Term..
If we hadn't "Shut up Shop"...let this thing do what it wants, to move among us...It's pretty much a given that everyone
would have caught it....Caught it, not been affected by it...So I not gonna even try and guess how bad things would have
been.....Despite what people think.... ... this thing does kill people,not just the old,do some stat checking,plenty
of 40/50 year olds have gone down with it.
Hospitals would have crashed and burned...and put the Closed signs up...turning people away,would the Nightingales
have handled it...we only have so many staff,can have a Million beds...no staff,it becomes pointless exercise.
Can you imagine sickness levels among our workforce...potentially would have gone thru the roof...you think the
Economies taken a hit now...20/30% sickness levels.....No Staff in Shops,Teacher shortages,trains not running...could
go on,plus the fact this thing isn't going anywhere,cos we never stopped it,it would just continue,we'd be Fucked.

WE done the right thing...

I think you over estimate the effect "sickness" would have affected the economy tbh. I know 10 people who have had Covid. Not a particularly large number I grant you, but whilst they ALL had to miss work, either by being forced to isolate or because their business couldn't operate, only ONE of those actually described herself as being "really ill". The others described it as being "a bit like a head cold" at one end of the spectrum to "a nasty bout of flu" at the other.

As I say 10 isn't a big enough number to make any sort of rational judgment either way but Mrs W's GP friend's experience is. She is a GP and in her Health Authority (East Herts) she says that as many of 50% of hospital beds are taken up by people who needn't be there. She also confirms that, whilst a very small number of 60 year olds and below have been admitted to hospital, the overwhelming majority of admissions are among the very oldest in our society.

The good senator from Kansas may well have a point when he argues that devoting so much resource to the economically inactive (and I suspect it is less pronounced in the USA because of their health care structure) makes very little sense in the overall scheme of things.

And finally I emphasise this is not a political point on my part. I think there has been an over reaction, in fact several ill thought out over reactions, to the situation by the Johnson administration, not least by what many would describe as blatant scaremongering by the likes of Chris Whitty. However what I will say is that a nannying socialist government would I am sure, imposed even more draconian restrictions on the nation. But just because I am by nature a conservative doesn't mean I consider the government to be exempt from criticism.

[mkhammer]

Ok lets forget peoples lives........
And look at the Economics...First of all and you'll know this ,the Very last thing any Conservative Government would want
is higher unemployment...less tax revenue, more benefit pay outs...so we have the risk and reward thing you refer to,how do we
balance that, what is best ...For the Long term..Long Term...we proved we can take a short term hit,that I personally
didn't think was possible..Covering wages,deferring loans etc...that was doable,a fuckin struggle,people have been hurt,
no denying that..seen it.
But we will bounce back.....Money doesn't disappear,it's still there,sat in peoples bank accounts,there will be a spending
boom when we open up..happening already with Holiday bookings.(which TBH aint great,cos most of the money goes
overseas)but the shops will be mobbed,as will pubs,restaurants,car dealerships...you name it.
18 months the Economy will Ok pretty stable I'm guessing,worldwide as well.....not just us.
Everything The Tories have done goes against their Policies/Strategies ...Why would they do that..makes no sense...
Reason is....for the Longer Term..
If we hadn't "Shut up Shop"...let this thing do what it wants, to move among us...It's pretty much a given that everyone
would have caught it....Caught it, not been affected by it...So I not gonna even try and guess how bad things would have
been.....Despite what people think.... ... this thing does kill people,not just the old,do some stat checking,plenty
of 40/50 year olds have gone down with it.
Hospitals would have crashed and burned...and put the Closed signs up...turning people away,would the Nightingales
have handled it...we only have so many staff,can have a Million beds...no staff,it becomes pointless exercise.
Can you imagine sickness levels among our workforce...potentially would have gone thru the roof...you think the
Economies taken a hit now...20/30% sickness levels.....No Staff in Shops,Teacher shortages,trains not running...could
go on,plus the fact this thing isn't going anywhere,cos we never stopped it,it would just continue,we'd be Fucked.

WE done the right thing...

I think you over estimate the effect "sickness" would have affected the economy tbh. I know 10 people who have had Covid. Not a particularly large number I grant you, but whilst they ALL had to miss work, either by being forced to isolate or because their business couldn't operate, only ONE of those actually described herself as being "really ill". The others described it as being "a bit like a head cold" at one end of the spectrum to "a nasty bout of flu" at the other.

As I say 10 isn't a big enough number to make any sort of rational judgment either way but Mrs W's GP friend's experience is. She is a GP and in her Health Authority (East Herts) she says that as many of 50% of hospital beds are taken up by people who needn't be there. She also confirms that, whilst a very small number of 60 year olds and below have been admitted to hospital, the overwhelming majority of admissions are among the very oldest in our society.

The good senator from Kansas may well have a point when he argues that devoting so much resource to the economically inactive (and I suspect it is less pronounced in the USA because of their health care structure) makes very little sense in the overall scheme of things.

All the way thru this Whisky has been the Unknown Factor..potentially what it could do....
Start of Jan we were averaging 50,000 cases a day and 1000 deaths...with no lockdown...would that have continued..
And if it had of continued.....I seriously dread to think of the state we could have been in..

NHS have a prob with Older Folk Holding up Beds,when they should be released I agree.....can't send them home
till they are able to fend for themselves.....tough if you live alone,and have been weakened....don't really know the
answer TBH...

The People that Senator is speaking of, are the People that worked, created and funded the Economy he works,lives in,
and enjoys now...
Nice Guy...................................

[Whiskyman]

I think you over estimate the effect "sickness" would have affected the economy tbh. I know 10 people who have had Covid. Not a particularly large number I grant you, but whilst they ALL had to miss work, either by being forced to isolate or because their business couldn't operate, only ONE of those actually described herself as being "really ill". The others described it as being "a bit like a head cold" at one end of the spectrum to "a nasty bout of flu" at the other.

As I say 10 isn't a big enough number to make any sort of rational judgment either way but Mrs W's GP friend's experience is. She is a GP and in her Health Authority (East Herts) she says that as many of 50% of hospital beds are taken up by people who needn't be there. She also confirms that, whilst a very small number of 60 year olds and below have been admitted to hospital, the overwhelming majority of admissions are among the very oldest in our society.

The good senator from Kansas may well have a point when he argues that devoting so much resource to the economically inactive (and I suspect it is less pronounced in the USA because of their health care structure) makes very little sense in the overall scheme of things.

All the way thru this Whisky has been the Unknown Factor..potentially what it could do....
Start of Jan we were averaging 50,000 cases a day and 1000 deaths...with no lockdown...would that have continued..
And if it had of continued.....I seriously dread to think of the state we could have been in..

NHS have a prob with Older Folk Holding up Beds,when they should be released I agree.....can't send them home
till they are able to fend for themselves.....tough if you live alone,and have been weakened....don't really know the
answer TBH...

The People that Senator is speaking of, are the People that worked, created and funded the Economy he works,lives in,
and enjoys now...
Nice Guy...................................

Hospitals are there for the purpose of treating the sick. Not providing palliative care because people have nowhere else to go. That is the function of social services.

[BlackDiamond]

All the way thru this Whisky has been the Unknown Factor..potentially what it could do....
Start of Jan we were averaging 50,000 cases a day and 1000 deaths...with no lockdown...would that have continued..
And if it had of continued.....I seriously dread to think of the state we could have been in..

NHS have a prob with Older Folk Holding up Beds,when they should be released I agree.....can't send them home
till they are able to fend for themselves.....tough if you live alone,and have been weakened....don't really know the
answer TBH...

The People that Senator is speaking of, are the People that worked, created and funded the Economy he works,lives in,
and enjoys now...
Nice Guy...................................

Hospitals are there for the purpose of treating the sick. Not providing palliative care because people have nowhere else to go. That is the function of social services.

Absolutely correct. And we need a better model of institutionalised care for the elderly. For too long this issue has been kicked down the road without anything approaching the desire or hard work needed to provide a sustainable solution.

Serious money and investment needs to be allocated under the provision to 'save the NHS'. And lets keep it away from social services. We need professional people with vision,imagination and energy on this one.

And it would be good to get a sponsor/patron from one of the Tech billionaires on board. These people have thousands of ready made project teams on the go and could rotate in and out good people to architect the visions.

[Ironworksfc]

Ok lets forget peoples lives........
And look at the Economics...First of all and you'll know this ,the Very last thing any Conservative Government would want
is higher unemployment...less tax revenue, more benefit pay outs...so we have the risk and reward thing you refer to,how do we
balance that, what is best ...For the Long term..Long Term...we proved we can take a short term hit,that I personally
didn't think was possible..Covering wages,deferring loans etc...that was doable,a fuckin struggle,people have been hurt,
no denying that..seen it.
But we will bounce back.....Money doesn't disappear,it's still there,sat in peoples bank accounts,there will be a spending
boom when we open up..happening already with Holiday bookings.(which TBH aint great,cos most of the money goes
overseas)but the shops will be mobbed,as will pubs,restaurants,car dealerships...you name it.
18 months the Economy will Ok pretty stable I'm guessing,worldwide as well.....not just us.
Everything The Tories have done goes against their Policies/Strategies ...Why would they do that..makes no sense...
Reason is....for the Longer Term..
If we hadn't "Shut up Shop"...let this thing do what it wants, to move among us...It's pretty much a given that everyone
would have caught it....Caught it, not been affected by it...So I not gonna even try and guess how bad things would have
been.....Despite what people think.... ... this thing does kill people,not just the old,do some stat checking,plenty
of 40/50 year olds have gone down with it.
Hospitals would have crashed and burned...and put the Closed signs up...turning people away,would the Nightingales
have handled it...we only have so many staff,can have a Million beds...no staff,it becomes pointless exercise.
Can you imagine sickness levels among our workforce...potentially would have gone thru the roof...you think the
Economies taken a hit now...20/30% sickness levels.....No Staff in Shops,Teacher shortages,trains not running...could
go on,plus the fact this thing isn't going anywhere,cos we never stopped it,it would just continue,we'd be Fucked.

WE done the right thing...

I think you over estimate the effect "sickness" would have affected the economy tbh. I know 10 people who have had Covid. Not a particularly large number I grant you, but whilst they ALL had to miss work, either by being forced to isolate or because their business couldn't operate, only ONE of those actually described herself as being "really ill". The others described it as being "a bit like a head cold" at one end of the spectrum to "a nasty bout of flu" at the other.

As I say 10 isn't a big enough number to make any sort of rational judgment either way but Mrs W's GP friend's experience is. She is a GP and in her Health Authority (East Herts) she says that as many of 50% of hospital beds are taken up by people who needn't be there. She also confirms that, whilst a very small number of 60 year olds and below have been admitted to hospital, the overwhelming majority of admissions are among the very oldest in our society.

The good senator from Kansas may well have a point when he argues that devoting so much resource to the economically inactive (and I suspect it is less pronounced in the USA because of their health care structure) makes very little sense in the overall scheme of things.

And finally I emphasise this is not a political point on my part. I think there has been an over reaction, in fact several ill thought out over reactions, to the situation by the Johnson administration, not least by what many would describe as blatant scaremongering by the likes of Chris Whitty. However what I will say is that a nannying socialist government would I am sure, imposed even more draconian restrictions on the nation. But just because I am by nature a conservative doesn't mean I consider the government to be exempt from criticism.

Forget logic whisky

So blinded by the false figures and scare tactics, reason has well and truly left the station.