Coronavirus

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Whiskyman
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Whiskyman »

BCHammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:46 am
Whiskyman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:49 pm

I get that mate. But common sense dictates if you're vulnerable, to anything, not just this, you take steps to protect yourself. And maybe it's just the way my mind works but even if you are in the so called vulnerable group and you are prepared to take the risk of infection, for example to see your grandchildren and give them a hug, you should be free to do so. We all take risks of some sort every day in our lives, some take greater risks than others, but as long as we're aware of those risks, such as those of us who smoke (not me) or those that drink more than the recommended guidelines (guilty, m'lud), I don't see the problem. Let us be accountable for our own actions. If we want to shut ourselves away, walk around in face masks or bath daily in bloody Domestos, we should be free to do so. But there are a great many who don't.
I drive a van and deliver to hospitals and care homes among many other places. The first outbreak in Vancouver was at a care home I went to regularly, they lost a third of their residents. 20 died in a month. They were elderly and would have died sooner than everyone else anyway, so it doesn't matter right? You might be ready to go, but those people didn't get a choice because a staff member brought it in. Those people had children and grandchildren who not only lost their loved one sooner than expected but didn't get a chance to say goodbye either. As getting to know some of the staff there, they were devastated and that is the type of situation that the government is trying to avoid - those vulnerable were not able to take steps to protect themselves, they and their loved ones thought they were in such a place where they were protected.

Mind you, if you get rid of all the seniors, that sorts out the pension problems. Get rid of the weak, that reduces the burden on the health care system too, so wins all round - right?
I suspect your last paragraph is meant in jest, although it is an economic view that has been expressed by at least one US politician.

But to address your point. I fail to see how relaxing the rigid lockdown rules we are currently experiencing in the UK would increase the risks to people in care homes. Delivery people, at least in the UK, now have to conform to certain rules and regulations when delivering to private residences so the same, maybe even more stringent rules, apply when delivering to places like care homes. No one is suggesting good hygiene practices should be abandoned for heaven's sake.

However relaxing, for example, personal freedom of movement restrictions, such as allowing people to travel to and attend, as an example, sporting events, will in no way increase the risk to, using your analogy, care home residents. The people most vulnerable to this virus are already well aware of their "vulnerability". It is however a fact that many who are told they should feel vulnerable, I'm in this group because of age, don't necessarily buy into all the hype and hysteria.

It is not heartless ior uncaruing to suggest that 80 year olds are unlikely to pick up the virus by mixing with people who have travelled to a sporting event. However, and I believe this is an important point to make, if an 80 year old wishes to spend some time with his or her family and, for all intents and purposes stuff two fingers up at the "rule of 6" to do so, why should they not be free to do so ?.

People in poor health, and those who are old and frail, will still be protected. No one is suggesting otherwise. But the one size fits all restrictions being placed on large sections of our population, at enormous economic cost, totally outweighs all other considerations.
TRADITION--Just because we've always done it like this doesn't mean it's not incredibly SILLY

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mkhammer
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by mkhammer »

Whiskyman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:49 pm
mkhammer wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:00 am

Thing is mate...it's the carrying of it and the movement of it...the whole point of lockdowns etc,is to protect the
vulnerable..not the vast majority of us,who be asymptomatic or suffer mild cold symptoms...

A new high yesterday 490,000 new cases,at present rates thats about 10,000 deaths..480,000 day before
If carries on present trend week or 2 will be 1,000,000 new cases a day..and we've no Idea what the peak will be.
I get that mate. But common sense dictates if you're vulnerable, to anything, not just this, you take steps to protect yourself. And maybe it's just the way my mind works but even if you are in the so called vulnerable group and you are prepared to take the risk of infection, for example to see your grandchildren and give them a hug, you should be free to do so. We all take risks of some sort every day in our lives, some take greater risks than others, but as long as we're aware of those risks, such as those of us who smoke (not me) or those that drink more than the recommended guidelines (guilty, m'lud), I don't see the problem. Let us be accountable for our own actions. If we want to shut ourselves away, walk around in face masks or bath daily in bloody Domestos, we should be free to do so. But there are a great many who don't.
I think maybe there will come a time for that mate...I do get the personal thing....You've taken every precaution poss
Distancing ,Washing, Masking,staying in as much as poss,but circumstances may stop you giving your elderly gran a hug..
I do get it.
I'm kinda repeating myself a bit..it's the unknown of this thing...just believe at the moment we have to attack to 100%
of what we can do...we can't get rid..then we live with it,but while the possibilities there,we can fuck this thing off
lets do it..and return to Normal...not one where we have to permanently wear masks,and distance...

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mkhammer
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by mkhammer »

JayK wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:23 pm I see a video the other day. Dunno how real it is but if real and true it shows the tests to be inept.

This guy had heard stories of p we pole ordering tests, swabbing pubnles and dogs gobs and sending back to find they got a positive result 5 days later. So he ordered one, literally just snapped it and put it in its pot without swabbing anything as nd sent it off. 5 days later he received a positive result. Obviously if true, these tests are completely flawed and complete bollocks.....or it could just be fake news.
Said something earlier Jay....anything that doesn't come out Negative...will be taken as a Positive,saves time, money...
can't ignore it, that would be wrong,can't spend time and money tracking the offender down,should do cos he is one IMO.

So the one in 5/10,000 dodgy ones they get is ...basically a Fuck it...send it back as a positive...can't go negative as the cowboy that
done it might Positive.....can't win....

Case of better safe than sorry..

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mkhammer
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by mkhammer »

palerider wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:45 am
BCHammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:46 am

I drive a van and deliver to hospitals and care homes among many other places. The first outbreak in Vancouver was at a care home I went to regularly, they lost a third of their residents. 20 died in a month. They were elderly and would have died sooner than everyone else anyway, so it doesn't matter right? You might be ready to go, but those people didn't get a choice because a staff member brought it in. Those people had children and grandchildren who not only lost their loved one sooner than expected but didn't get a chance to say goodbye either. As getting to know some of the staff there, they were devastated and that is the type of situation that the government is trying to avoid - those vulnerable were not able to take steps to protect themselves, they and their loved ones thought they were in such a place where they were protected.

Mind you, if you get rid of all the seniors, that sorts out the pension problems. Get rid of the weak, that reduces the burden on the health care system too, so wins all round - right?
I don't know about Canada admittedly. And it's been shameful in any part of the world where the elderly have just been abandoned.

But it's reached the stage imo, that the damage being done by not getting back to some semblance of normality far outweighs what's happening. The bigger picture you might say.

The thing is, who can say if there'll be a third wave in the spring. Then a fourth. Plus other pandemics looming that aren't coronavirus ?

Apologies if I sound cold-hearted but associated deaths by closing down countries every time an 'expert' says so will be much higher.

I say it again. It's not ebola with a 90% fatality rate. The death rate is at worst 3% which will include the elderly and those in poor general health that you mention. Every death will leave a grieving family and that's tragic. And the way our government has dealt with it is shambolic.

But as with Spanish flu 100 years ago, when the death rates were far higher, life has to go on.
Spanish Flu killed 3% of worlds population...heard that quoted recently..not checked it,but think I've heard that before..
if this carries on and everyone gets it...it's increasing weekly ..a lot...it will kill the same percentage ....ballpark 200,000,000..

Sorry mate hate disagreeing with you guys all the time...but these are facts...we have to stop it, somehow,someway,continuing
as normal won't do it....till we have a jab of some kind to protect the vulnerable,we gotta tighten up..

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BlackDiamond
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by BlackDiamond »

mkhammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:25 pm
palerider wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:45 am

I don't know about Canada admittedly. And it's been shameful in any part of the world where the elderly have just been abandoned.

But it's reached the stage imo, that the damage being done by not getting back to some semblance of normality far outweighs what's happening. The bigger picture you might say.

The thing is, who can say if there'll be a third wave in the spring. Then a fourth. Plus other pandemics looming that aren't coronavirus ?

Apologies if I sound cold-hearted but associated deaths by closing down countries every time an 'expert' says so will be much higher.

I say it again. It's not ebola with a 90% fatality rate. The death rate is at worst 3% which will include the elderly and those in poor general health that you mention. Every death will leave a grieving family and that's tragic. And the way our government has dealt with it is shambolic.

But as with Spanish flu 100 years ago, when the death rates were far higher, life has to go on.
Spanish Flu killed 3% of worlds population...heard that quoted recently..not checked it,but think I've heard that before..
if this carries on and everyone gets it...it's increasing weekly ..a lot...it will kill the same percentage ....ballpark 200,000,000..

Sorry mate hate disagreeing with you guys all the time...but these are facts...we have to stop it, somehow,someway,continuing
as normal won't do it....till we have a jab of some kind to protect the vulnerable,we gotta tighten up..
The influenza 1918 pandemic killed 50-100 million in 1 year

Covid has claimed 1.2 million lives in 8 months. Not the same level of lethality in the slightest.

The flu killed people within 24 hours of infection. Covid kills the very vulnerable after weeks of deterioration - always because they have other weaknesses. To suggest the two can be compared is absurd.

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JayK
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JayK »

mkhammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:09 pm
JayK wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:23 pm I see a video the other day. Dunno how real it is but if real and true it shows the tests to be inept.

This guy had heard stories of p we pole ordering tests, swabbing pubnles and dogs gobs and sending back to find they got a positive result 5 days later. So he ordered one, literally just snapped it and put it in its pot without swabbing anything as nd sent it off. 5 days later he received a positive result. Obviously if true, these tests are completely flawed and complete bollocks.....or it could just be fake news.
Said something earlier Jay....anything that doesn't come out Negative...will be taken as a Positive,saves time, money...
can't ignore it, that would be wrong,can't spend time and money tracking the offender down,should do cos he is one IMO.

So the one in 5/10,000 dodgy ones they get is ...basically a Fuck it...send it back as a positive...can't go negative as the cowboy that
done it might Positive.....can't win....

Case of better safe than sorry..
Very true MK, Unless the testing system really is flawed of course. In which case, stats for this thing are up the wall. No idea what to think of it anymore. All I know is that I can't trust the general public coz all they do is think about themselves
COYI!!!

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mkhammer
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by mkhammer »

BlackDiamond wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:06 pm
mkhammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:25 pm

Spanish Flu killed 3% of worlds population...heard that quoted recently..not checked it,but think I've heard that before..
if this carries on and everyone gets it...it's increasing weekly ..a lot...it will kill the same percentage ....ballpark 200,000,000..

Sorry mate hate disagreeing with you guys all the time...but these are facts...we have to stop it, somehow,someway,continuing
as normal won't do it....till we have a jab of some kind to protect the vulnerable,we gotta tighten up..
The influenza 1918 pandemic killed 50-100 million in 1 year

Covid has claimed 1.2 million lives in 8 months. Not the same level of lethality in the slightest.

The flu killed people within 24 hours of infection. Covid kills the very vulnerable after weeks of deterioration - always because they have other weaknesses. To suggest the two can be compared is absurd.
First of all I didn't compare the 2 originally....but we can...Also read the history of it,it'll surprise you...started of very
slow just hitting the vulnerable then escalated ...sound familiar...

There's something you are just not getting....this thing may just be starting...looking at daily,weekly,monthly figures
it almost certainly is....that's what I'm concerned with...we don't know where it's going,what it can do.
Anyone that says just let it run...I'm Sorry you're just not getting or understanding it.

What would have happened if we hadn't "Locked Down"and took the precautions we have, thought of that one...

If In 1918 They knew what we do now,and had the same info...they would have done exactly what we are doing in containing
it or trying to anyway, and maybe so many would not have died,,in fact they wouldn't have.

No we can't compare it to previous epidemics...Cancer,Heart Decease...Flu..it is what it is, something thats only been
here 8 months..and is multiplying by 450, 000 a day...and killing a lot more than the figure you quoted.

So to stand back and do nothing......thats whats Absurd...

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mkhammer
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by mkhammer »

So Boots are offering up Nasal 20 minute tests...at £120 a go.........pricing out the very people that prob need it the most...

Where the Fuck is the Average UK family gonna find £500 for tests,at any time,let alone now...when those that aren't
being laid off are on 65% of their wages or something....Disgraceful, hopefully some pay back will be due....

Protest outside their shops,questions in Parliament..etc..

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JayK
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by JayK »

mkhammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:11 pm So Boots are offering up Nasal 20 minute tests...at £120 a go.........pricing out the very people that prob need it the most...

Where the Fuck is the Average UK family gonna find £500 for tests,at any time,let alone now...when those that aren't
being laid off are on 65% of their wages or something....Disgraceful, hopefully some pay back will be due....

Protest outside their shops,questions in Parliament..etc..
That's obscene. And I hear they're charging £80 for the quick test at airports. Although I don't know the ins and outs of it I would question why anyone would want to pay £80 for a test just before they're about to go on holiday. Surely if the tests come back positive, they'd be refused to be let on the plane. That wouldn't be a risk I'd want or pay for with the chance of losing your holiday and the money paid for it etc
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by terrya1965 »

mkhammer wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:11 pm So Boots are offering up Nasal 20 minute tests...at £120 a go.........pricing out the very people that prob need it the most...

Where the Fuck is the Average UK family gonna find £500 for tests,at any time,let alone now...when those that aren't
being laid off are on 65% of their wages or something....Disgraceful, hopefully some pay back will be due....

Protest outside their shops,questions in Parliament..etc..
There is always someone getting rich,while there is misery for others.

The government have given out £3 Billion in taxpayers money in contracts to "their friends",which you all know,they have all got major shares in.

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