Caster Semenya

[Brookbonds73]

There's our girls trying to beat that thing and it's flying past them waving it's cock in their chops with a pint in one hand and a bricklayers trowel in the other.
It's not on, I tell ya.

[Marco Boogers Boots]

We need to make the distinction between Semenya and the other athletes mentioned here.

McKinnon and the rest were, to put it bluntly, born with a cock and balls. Through puberty and beyond their bodies developed with high testosterone, resulting in larger muscles and more bone density. Just because they now "identify" as female does not mean that they lose those physical advantages, which simply cannot be viewed as fair.

In Semenya's case (along with others), it is accepted by the authorities that her elevated testosterone levels are naturally occurring (and not as high as a biological male's), yet they have ruled that she needs to take drugs to reduce them. This to me sounds absolutely mental; it's essentially "reverse-doping" to level the playing field. She has been checked, independently, for her sex; she is female but has hyperandrogenism.

This really is ground-breaking, as if this is allowed to stand what will follow? I don't think it is difficult to argue that this is a naturally occurring advantage, so are they going to stop 7ft basketball players or swimmers with naturally long arms and flipper-like feet?

[palerider]

We need to make the distinction between Semenya and the other athletes mentioned here.

McKinnon and the rest were, to put it bluntly, born with a cock and balls. Through puberty and beyond their bodies developed with high testosterone, resulting in larger muscles and more bone density. Just because they now "identify" as female does not mean that they lose those physical advantages, which simply cannot be viewed as fair.

In Semenya's case (along with others), it is accepted by the authorities that her elevated testosterone levels are naturally occurring (and not as high as a biological male's), yet they have ruled that she needs to take drugs to reduce them. This to me sounds absolutely mental; it's essentially "reverse-doping" to level the playing field. She has been checked, independently, for her sex; she is female but has hyperandrogenism.

This really is ground-breaking, as if this is allowed to stand what will follow? I don't think it is difficult to argue that this is a naturally occurring advantage, so are they going to stop 7ft basketball players or swimmers with naturally long arms and flipper-like feet?

I take your point.

But that beard on the starting blocks is a bit of a giveaway.

[Gonzo]

This is quite an extensive piece written on the argument which is well worth a read.

There is also a really good Joe Rogan video which I'll dig out.

https://themmaguru.com/fallon-fox-transgender-mma/

[BlackDiamond]

This is quite an extensive piece written on the argument which is well worth a read.

There is also a really good Joe Rogan video which I'll dig out.

https://themmaguru.com/fallon-fox-transgender-mma/

Interesting piece and Rogan pretty well gives a good counter argument for why this phenomena skews competition.

It would also be interesting to know whether any woman has been successful competing as a man in professional sport.

I think we could discount the chances of that happening, unless that sport used a machine or a horse...

[Neville Bartos]

This is quite an extensive piece written on the argument which is well worth a read.

There is also a really good Joe Rogan video which I'll dig out.

https://themmaguru.com/fallon-fox-transgender-mma/

Interesting piece and Rogan pretty well gives a good counter argument for why this phenomena skews competition.

It would also be interesting to know whether any woman has been successful competing as a man in professional sport.

I think we could discount the chances of that happening, unless that sport used a machine or a horse...

I think men and women already compete together at Olympic equestrian events.

[Rick_Deckard]

"I think men and women already compete together at Olympic equestrian events."

yes, but thats because the horse is doing all the hard graft...its not like the physical difference between say a male and a female boxer, one on one

[Gonzo]

This is quite an extensive piece written on the argument which is well worth a read.

There is also a really good Joe Rogan video which I'll dig out.

https://themmaguru.com/fallon-fox-transgender-mma/

Interesting piece and Rogan pretty well gives a good counter argument for why this phenomena skews competition.

It would also be interesting to know whether any woman has been successful competing as a man in professional sport.

I think we could discount the chances of that happening, unless that sport used a machine or a horse...

I think the argument get's muddied the moment combat sports is brought into it.

If an athlete with the physical advantages of a male runs or cycles against female athletes then the cost is glory and finance.

The moment someone with natural physical advantages starts beating someone else to the head or putting them in a choke hold it's very different. We have to be careful that people don't get permanently hurt in the pursuit of perceived gender equality.

The moment peoples well being, physical health and mortality is put on the line to further the cause we've gone down the path of debated fairness superseding safety.

Fallon Fox may well have received hormone treatment and operations to try and facilitate the path from man to woman. However her doctor will still treat her medically as a man. If she goes to the toilet and finds blood she'll be tested for prostate cancer.

I'm sure the medics will use the correct pronouns and be very polite but Fallon Fox will be administered the treatment and dosages usually given to a man.

Prostate cancer, Alport syndrome, baldness, colour blindness, are male (XY) afflictions. Fox can't get pregnant and is susceptible to male diseases and will never get Turner syndrome or ovarian and cervical cancers.

Why? Because despite the HRT & surgery Fallon Fox remains mostly a bloke. The saving grace is that she's quite shit at MMA. God help the poor women fighters when someone of talent decides to transition because people will get seriously hurt,

[BlackDiamond]

Interesting piece and Rogan pretty well gives a good counter argument for why this phenomena skews competition.

It would also be interesting to know whether any woman has been successful competing as a man in professional sport.

I think we could discount the chances of that happening, unless that sport used a machine or a horse...

I think the argument get's muddied the moment combat sports is brought into it.

If an athlete with the physical advantages of a male runs or cycles against female athletes then the cost is glory and finance.

The moment someone with natural physical advantages starts beating someone else to the head or putting them in a choke hold it's very different. We have to be careful that people don't get permanently hurt in the pursuit of perceived gender equality.

The moment peoples well being, physical health and mortality is put on the line to further the cause we've gone down the path of debated fairness superseding safety.

Fallon Fox may well have received hormone treatment and operations to try and facilitate the path from man to woman. However her doctor will still treat her medically as a man. If she goes to the toilet and finds blood she'll be tested for prostate cancer.

I'm sure the medics will use the correct pronouns and be very polite but Fallon Fox will be administered the treatment and dosages usually given to a man.

Prostate cancer, Alport syndrome, baldness, colour blindness, are male (XY) afflictions. Fox can't get pregnant and is susceptible to male diseases and will never get Turner syndrome or ovarian and cervical cancers.

Why? Because despite the HRT & surgery Fallon Fox remains mostly a bloke. The saving grace is that she's quite shit at MMA. God help the poor women fighters when someone of talent decides to transition because people will get seriously hurt,

I think the argument gets muddied when facts are introduced.On a micro biological level or a cellular granularity structure level,a man is a man and a women is a woman.

Any disguise of that,regardless of how radical or clever the perceived change is evolved,is just a disguise fundamentally. We would be better off acknowledging that and not pretending something really magical has occurred.

That might seem a downright unfair analysis of a hugely sensitive issue,but truth hits everybody in the end...

[Neville Bartos]

"I think men and women already compete together at Olympic equestrian events."

yes, but thats because the horse is doing all the hard graft...its not like the physical difference between say a male and a female boxer, one on one

It runs deeper than that. I think participation levels are at least equal too. Which means there's no real disparity in skill. Unlike say motorsports, where the car does most of the work, but the disparity in participation leads to a massive difference in talent pools. Hence naff all women at the tippy top of the sport.