Whiskyman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:35 am
h69 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:07 am
You have the purists that I would count myself as one that want to watch the team, dont expect too much luxury but want an atmosphere and a
competitive league...that is geared towards the fan who watches live.
You have the other camp which Whisky is in where they want a glossy product, all the best players in the world playing here even if it means the top 6 pull away and the league is less competitive and luxury facilities plus the game geared towards the TV fan or the fan that sees a player on the playstation and wants to see him play live.
You are absolutely wrong in your assessment of where I stand on the issue. I do however acknowledge the game has evolved from where it was when I started going. I acknowledge, and accept, this because to continually harp on about the past is a pointless exercise.
We have always had those who have and those who haven't. One of my earliest football memories was a bigger, more successful club, Spurs, taking Martin Peters and giving us a past his sell by Jimmy Greaves and a few thousand quid. Of course the gulf has developed into a chasm but that is in part because of the ridiculous FFP regulations which actually prevent wealthy benefactors from turning shabby little nonentity clubs into the "glossy products" you seem to disparage. Where would Chelsea be today without Abramovich, or Man City without Sheikh Mansour ? Is the English game worse off having those 2 clubs being able to challenge the previously undisputed elite ? Would the game not be further improved if more new money could be ploughed into the game with the objective of elevating more of the also rans into serios players ?
And you say I want a "glossy product". I think obnly a neanderthal would honestly say the conditions we endured when we started going to matches were preferable to what we have now. And before we get into a discussion about sitting or standing I do happen to agree that the so called safe standing areas should be encouraged. The stadia we now watch the game in are far superior to some of the crapholes we've visited on our travels in the past. And the quality of pitches has improved immeasurably since the days when Upton Park had been turned into a mudbath by the bloody British Legion Band even before the kick off or games at Derby's old Baseball Ground could only be played when the tide was out.
All of which is getting away from the "working class" thing though. I have never really seen why we insist on lumping people into certain "classes". And what is "working class" ? Is it someone who gets their hands dirty at work as opposed to someone who works in an office ? Is it someone who rents rather than owns their own home ? I honestly don't get it. Nor do I get the notion that a bank manager shouldn't enjoy a game of football as much as a building site labourer. In my book people fall into two categories. A very small minority who have either been born into inherited wealth or have been fortunate enough to win the lottery, and the rest of us who have to go to work, whether it's labouring on a building site or managing a bank, to feed and house our families.
You are right....you clearly dont get it. Your comment about the Old Etonians made me laugh the other day. You conveniently left off the reason why football became first nationwide and then global (Watch the series the English Game) and focussed on its beginnings when it was a closed shop. Seems that is what you favour
The thing about you Whisky is that you cant accept that not everyone has your view. There are many like you and more and more by the day that want to watch football on TV but tell the fans that go what they want and you dont always have the faintest clue what some of us want.
For example, you spent a whole paragraph talking about facilities, stadia and pitches. I personally dont give a shit if there is luxury seating, lovely whitewashed walls, expensive food outlets and a snooker table like pitch etc. Hardly makes it better in my view. Would love to see some of these so called skillful players play on bad pitches to see just how good they are.
Some of the best games I have ever seen were on crap pitches in crap stadia.
Has Abramovich or Mansour been good for football ? No. Ask the numbers of decent kids that are hoarded by those teams and never get a chance or a move yet they turn these teams into Playstation type sides with stars from all over the world and now because of these owners, they want to devalue even more the teams below them by taking a bigger share of the vote and playing in an allstar league with a closed shop.
I was quite happy with 3 quid to get in the 'Crapholes' you mentioned before as it was reasonable in price, there was an atmosphere and the games were competitive.....but then I go to watch a game not enjoy facilities. I suggest you find a sports bar....lovely seating in there, good food and you wont have to get cold. Seems to be better for you.
You speak about those who have and those who haven't. You would have to be deluded to think that the gap is the same as it was previously but just because we cant do anything about the changes by 'harping on' does not mean we should love what is put before us.
As for being a neanderthal....well, I am university educated and have a good job but it seems what you mean by neanderthal is 'not a snob'. A bit ironic in your case since you don't go to games any more yet preach to people about what they should expect in a stadium.
Clearly you love sitting at home and watching Skys glossy coverage and in which case, along with the 'Playstation generation' I can understand your views but please dont think that everyone shares yours.
As for what is working class. If you don't understand what that means now then you never will. I can understand that I am lucky enough to be able to afford to go to Football matches all over the country but I also see many that gave up when they were priced out in favour of people that just want to watch Super Sunday or Red Monday on TV. Those that need packaging put around the game, super facilities and all that goes with the glossy SKY offering because the football is not enough for them and they are not passionate enough about the game, that is entirely up to them but there are so many more of them around now.
Each to their own and I did say at the end of the last post that this was MY opinion but I am guessing you decided to omit that also.