All this Sky hate is ridiculous

[Newmarket]

Whilst I agree with most of what you have written re a balanced view and perspective, I can’t help but think that you are a Sky stooge.

He is Gary Neville and I claim my £5.

There can’t be many 83 year olds in New Jersey still up at half past midnight (New York time) in order to register on here and make their first post.

Still it must be said that despite the moving of kick off times, the excessive player wages and agents fees and bias towards the teams generating the biggest TV audiences the product for fans attending games has improved.

The standard of football as a whole is higher, TV has helped drive out the worst of professional fouls and dirty and negative play as it was there for all to see, some of the money has ended up replacing and improving stadiums for people who go to games, and the league is far from predictable (yes, City won again but the rest of the table was pretty jumbled up compared to predictions). And has been said above attendances are higher. It is not so long ago that we weren’t even filling UP, and we have very few non-WHU tourists amongst our 60k in my experience.

So there is a price to pay for the TV presentation and it would be no better with another broadcaster. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

We may get the chance to see what things are like if the PL is not the pre-eminent domestic league any more, if the Saudis elevate their league by buying all the best players.

I don’t work for Sky by the way, I have Sky TV but not the sports channels. Not because I hate Sky but because I can’t engage in our games in the same way on TV. And I don’t want to watch other teams. So I make do with radio and highlights if I can’t be there. I recanted and bought BT for a month for the ECL games in Alkmaar and Prague though

It also took him 4 minutes to cut and paste it .

Amazing stuff for an 83 year old who doesn’t subscribe to sky himself being a yank . Allegedly.

Mind you … he’s got you lot chin wagging about it .

By the way Tezza , I supported West Ham before Sky came along.

[h69]

Sky have destroyed football for the English supporter with its ludicrous KO times and biased coverage. Its geared towards the Chinese and American markets now.

Destroyed football for the English supporter ? Please explain then why there are more people attending games, yes, attending through the turnstiles, than ever before. And that includes, apparently, lower league and even non league games where it seems attendances are also moving upwards. If there are more people paying at the gate to watch matches that does not suggest the game has been destroyed.

Simply because there are more tourists attending Premier League games than previously.

Hope that explanation is satisfactory as its fairly self evident if you go to the games. As for the lower leagues, they suffer less because they have been affected less by the ludicrous KO times.

I did say, they have destroyed football for the English supporter and not 'the fans' as you reference.

[Newmarket]

IMG_1606.gif (136.87 KiB) Viewed 375 times

[Whiskyman]

Destroyed football for the English supporter ? Please explain then why there are more people attending games, yes, attending through the turnstiles, than ever before. And that includes, apparently, lower league and even non league games where it seems attendances are also moving upwards. If there are more people paying at the gate to watch matches that does not suggest the game has been destroyed.

Simply because there are more tourists attending Premier League games than previously.

Hope that explanation is satisfactory as its fairly self evident if you go to the games. As for the lower leagues, they suffer less because they have been affected less by the ludicrous KO times.

I did say, they have destroyed football for the English supporter and not 'the fans' as you reference.

Ahh yes, the old tourists chestnut. I read another post somewhere, may have been here, from an ST holder who said the London Stadium is relatively unaffected by tourists. And the fact season ticket sales, which surely would only be bought by people who wanted to use them, seem to be constant suggests tourists are not the big deal many would have us believe.

And I suspect the same season ticket data can be found at other clubs as well as West Ham. Supporters or fans ? I assume you would regard people who travel to watch away games as supporters. Again from what I read here and elsewhere the club’s away allocation is nearly always over subscribed which again leads me to believe the game is a long way off being destroyed.

For anybody, irrespective of any label you want to pin on them.

[terrya1965]

He is Gary Neville and I claim my £5.

There can’t be many 83 year olds in New Jersey still up at half past midnight (New York time) in order to register on here and make their first post.

Still it must be said that despite the moving of kick off times, the excessive player wages and agents fees and bias towards the teams generating the biggest TV audiences the product for fans attending games has improved.

The standard of football as a whole is higher, TV has helped drive out the worst of professional fouls and dirty and negative play as it was there for all to see, some of the money has ended up replacing and improving stadiums for people who go to games, and the league is far from predictable (yes, City won again but the rest of the table was pretty jumbled up compared to predictions). And has been said above attendances are higher. It is not so long ago that we weren’t even filling UP, and we have very few non-WHU tourists amongst our 60k in my experience.

So there is a price to pay for the TV presentation and it would be no better with another broadcaster. You have to take the rough with the smooth.

We may get the chance to see what things are like if the PL is not the pre-eminent domestic league any more, if the Saudis elevate their league by buying all the best players.

I don’t work for Sky by the way, I have Sky TV but not the sports channels. Not because I hate Sky but because I can’t engage in our games in the same way on TV. And I don’t want to watch other teams. So I make do with radio and highlights if I can’t be there. I recanted and bought BT for a month for the ECL games in Alkmaar and Prague though

It also took him 4 minutes to cut and paste it .

Amazing stuff for an 83 year old who doesn’t subscribe to sky himself being a yank . Allegedly.

Mind you … he’s got you lot chin wagging about it .

By the way Tezza , I supported West Ham before Sky came along.

So did I mate.

The days of paying peanuts and going anywhere to watch West Ham without a ticket was great, but Heysal,Hillsborough and the Bradford Fire put Football on it's arse.

Everybody bangs on about 1986 and how brilliant it was,but the ground was half empty for most of the season.We averaged just 21,000 that season and that rose massively in the last 4 or 5 home games(we averaged 5/6,000 more in the old Second Division in the 1970's).

Enter Gascoigne and Sky and we have the start of the phenomenal League it is today,the biggest money maker in World Football,whether we like it or not.

Listen,I think Football was a lot more competitive back then and I preferred that in comparison to today,where a team like us can never dream of being Champions.Money rules now I'm afraid,but at least it's safer than when we use to go back in the 70's and 80's.

[Dagger]

It also took him 4 minutes to cut and paste it .

Amazing stuff for an 83 year old who doesn’t subscribe to sky himself being a yank . Allegedly.

Mind you … he’s got you lot chin wagging about it .

By the way Tezza , I supported West Ham before Sky came along.

So did I mate.

The days of paying peanuts and going anywhere to watch West Ham without a ticket was great, but Heysal,Hillsborough and the Bradford Fire put Football on it's arse.

Everybody bangs on about 1986 and how brilliant it was,but the ground was half empty for most of the season.We averaged just 21,000 that season and that rose massively in the last 4 or 5 home games(we averaged 5/6,000 more in the old Second Division in the 1970's).

Enter Gascoigne and Sky and we have the start of the phenomenal League it is today,the biggest money maker in World Football,whether we like it or not.

Listen,I think Football was a lot more competitive back then and I preferred that in comparison to today,where a team like us can never dream of being Champions.Money rules now I'm afraid,but at least it's safer than when we use to go back in the 70's and 80's.

Hi Terry

had to check them attendance for 86 as didn't believe you, sorry for doubting how the mind plays tricks looking back at thing, would have lost money if we were in a pub talking

as much as i hate sky it like the life of Brian sketch about the romans when you start looking at what they have done

remember the cup finale against arse with the yellow waterfall coming down the steps things need to change

shame the players are so greedy but so would i if i could be a professional player

roll on next season watching from my arm chair

[Whiskyman]

So did I mate.

The days of paying peanuts and going anywhere to watch West Ham without a ticket was great, but Heysal,Hillsborough and the Bradford Fire put Football on it's arse.

Everybody bangs on about 1986 and how brilliant it was,but the ground was half empty for most of the season.We averaged just 21,000 that season and that rose massively in the last 4 or 5 home games(we averaged 5/6,000 more in the old Second Division in the 1970's).

Enter Gascoigne and Sky and we have the start of the phenomenal League it is today,the biggest money maker in World Football,whether we like it or not.

Listen,I think Football was a lot more competitive back then and I preferred that in comparison to today,where a team like us can never dream of being Champions.Money rules now I'm afraid,but at least it's safer than when we use to go back in the 70's and 80's.

Hi Terry

had to check them attendance for 86 as didn't believe you, sorry for doubting how the mind plays tricks looking back at thing, would have lost money if we were in a pub talking

as much as i hate sky it like the life of Brian sketch about the romans when you start looking at what they have done

remember the cup finale against arse with the yellow waterfall coming down the steps things need to change

shame the players are so greedy but so would i if i could be a professional player

roll on next season watching from my arm chair

Attendances in those days were dropping through the floor. English clubs were banned from Europe, the government of the day portrayed ALL football fans to be the devil incarnate, hell bent on trouble, and the image stuck for a while. And a lot of the tips laughingly called "stadiums" were, well, tips. And a lot of kids were turned off watching profesional football because of the crowd issues that still reared it's ugly head regularly.

[h69]

Simply because there are more tourists attending Premier League games than previously.

Hope that explanation is satisfactory as its fairly self evident if you go to the games. As for the lower leagues, they suffer less because they have been affected less by the ludicrous KO times.

I did say, they have destroyed football for the English supporter and not 'the fans' as you reference.

Ahh yes, the old tourists chestnut. I read another post somewhere, may have been here, from an ST holder who said the London Stadium is relatively unaffected by tourists. And the fact season ticket sales, which surely would only be bought by people who wanted to use them, seem to be constant suggests tourists are not the big deal many would have us believe.

And I suspect the same season ticket data can be found at other clubs as well as West Ham. Supporters or fans ? I assume you would regard people who travel to watch away games as supporters. Again from what I read here and elsewhere the club’s away allocation is nearly always over subscribed which again leads me to believe the game is a long way off being destroyed.

For anybody, irrespective of any label you want to pin on them.

There are loads of foreign tourists at our ground as I'm sure you have seen when you have been there..assuming you have.

I remember the PL using the 'football has never been so popular' chestnut when justifying keeping ticket prices high right up to a boycott by Man City and Arsenal fans causing them to rethink and negotiate with the 20 is plenty group. A similar protest happned at Soton and Palace during the Christmas period because of Amazon fucking about with KO times a year or so ago but we can all pretend it's all great if we are TV only supporters. Truth is though, it is not and that was started by Sky. I also believe they had to rethink the KO time of the Charity shield because of the ludicrous Sunday KO time and after a threat of boycott by the fans. But apparently there are no issues

The away allocation is indeed always taken up especially in seasons with European football anf precious points needed but the stands are not always full at these games since many but the tickets but choose not to attend. Got so bad with some games in Europe the club stepped in. Foe PL games at Man City, Man Utd and at Liverpool this season, there have been empty seats unfortunately. Understandable though due to shit KO times.

[Whiskyman]

Ahh yes, the old tourists chestnut. I read another post somewhere, may have been here, from an ST holder who said the London Stadium is relatively unaffected by tourists. And the fact season ticket sales, which surely would only be bought by people who wanted to use them, seem to be constant suggests tourists are not the big deal many would have us believe.

And I suspect the same season ticket data can be found at other clubs as well as West Ham. Supporters or fans ? I assume you would regard people who travel to watch away games as supporters. Again from what I read here and elsewhere the club’s away allocation is nearly always over subscribed which again leads me to believe the game is a long way off being destroyed.

For anybody, irrespective of any label you want to pin on them.

There are loads of foreign tourists at our ground as I'm sure you have seen when you have been there..assuming you have.

I remember the PL using the 'football has never been so popular' chestnut when justifying keeping ticket prices high right up to a boycott by Man City and Arsenal fans causing them to rethink and negotiate with the 20 is plenty group. A similar protest happned at Soton and Palace during the Christmas period because of Amazon fucking about with KO times a year or so ago but we can all pretend it's all great if we are TV only supporters. Truth is though, it is not and that was started by Sky. I also believe they had to rethink the KO time of the Charity shield because of the ludicrous Sunday KO time and after a threat of boycott by the fans. But apparently there are no issues

The away allocation is indeed always taken up especially in seasons with European football anf precious points needed but the stands are not always full at these games since many but the tickets but choose not to attend. Got so bad with some games in Europe the club stepped in. Foe PL games at Man City, Man Utd and at Liverpool this season, there have been empty seats unfortunately. Understandable though due to shit KO times.

I have no idea how many so called tourists attend games at the LS. I guess there are probably a fair number for the big games, less for the mundane ones. I also have no idea now how many of the seats are allocated to ST holders. The fact however remains that ST’s are sold out. Presumably the majority, if not all,of them are sold to supporters. As are the away tickets, including those sold to people who for whatever reason choose not to attend.

These facts alone suggest to me football has not been terminally injured for those you would probably call the true supporters. Nor it seems should the argument about ticket prices at away games being too expensive carry much weight if people are able to afford to purchase one with no intention of going to the game. Presumably they buy them to secure points for more attractive trips.

Like you I have watched football for many years and from where I’m looking the game is in a very healthy state when measured by the only real criteria that matters. Bums on seats.

[andyginbrasil]

Could someone explain how you can recognise a tourist in the crowd...... I may have a bit of an idea...... Is it due to the skin colour or maybe slitty eyes.....
Whilst watching a recent Luton v Bradford match I think I sussed out that the handful of pale skinned supporters were actually the dreaded tourist supporters......